Barnsley couple die Jan 1838

[Jason46]

From the England and wales Free BMD Death Index, I find that Thomas Barnsley from Penrith (my 3xgreat grandfather), and his wife Anne Barnsley from West Ward(my 3xgreat grandmother) both died January 1838. Was there a fire, a plague, what? The index doesn't tell me where this event happened but it would have been in the north of England, most likely in Cumberland. Anne's maiden name could have been Barnsley as she was an unmarried mother when son George was born in 1823, but her name given at the Christening was Barnsley. None of these people were mentioned in the 1841 census so I guess that would be right if they both died in 1838, but where was 18 year old George? Any hints or help greatly appreciated!

[andycand]

Hi

You need to be careful about making assumptions. Deaths should be registered where they occur, Ann Barnsley death was registered in West Ward Registration District which was Westmoreland, Tom Barnsley death was registered Penrith Registration District which was Cumberland. Both deaths were registered between 1st January 1838 and 31st March 1838, they may be your ancestors but without purchasing the certificates or finding other records such as burial records it is impossible to say.

Andy

[Jason46]

Point taken Andy. I will send for George's death certificate and go from there. Thank you for your prompt reply

[Ruskie]

So are you saying that Anne's maiden name was Barnsley, and that she married a man called Thomas Barnsley?

Presumably you are descended from their son George? Have you seen his baptism or birth record, and does it name Anne Barnsley as his mother? Does it give a father's name? Where was George born/baptised?

Do you have George in any census?

When a whole family is missing on the census often the reason they can't be found is due to a mistranscription, or somehow they may have been missed off the census, or perhaps they died or emigrated. 

[Ruskie]

Do you know George's occupation?

In the 1841 census I can see a George Barnsley b Penrith living in Burrowgate Penrith, born in county, age 15, as an apprentice to shoemaker William Birbeck.

He is a possibility and is the only one showing up as having been born in the right sort of area.

[Ruskie]

The IGI has a christening for a George Barnsley on 7 May 1823 in Sandgate, Penrith.
Mother is Ann Gates
Father is Thomas Scott Barnsley

The record also says:
George marriage 27 March 1847 West Derby, Derbyshire
[I thought West Derby was in Liverpool but there may be one in Derbyshire too  I take it you know who he married?]
Death 22 June 1858 Castlemaine, Victoria
[presumably this is your George as I see that you are in Australia?]

Do you know if this is all correct? I only ask because I see on the 1841 census that there is a George Barnsley of similar age to (possibly) your George who is b Penrith, and this one is born and living in Derbyshire. I just wondered if perhaps the two George Barnsleys had been mixed up? Have you confirmed any of the above through purchasing certificates?

George's marriage will give his father's name and his Australian d/c may give details of both parents if known by the informant. If they died when George was very young, the informant may not know his parent's names and that part not filled in. I am also unsure of what details are on Vic certs of the time, but maybe something you could look into.

[andycand]

Hi

George Barnsley (father Thomas) and Anne Gates (father John) were married 27th March 1847 at Everton, St George Church, Liverpool. This would be in the West Derby Registration District, Lancashire not Derbyshire. The image is on Ancestry.

Findmypast has the Marriage Licence Bond & Allegation this shows he was a schoolmaster. Does this fit with your knowledge).

The christening on Familysearch of George Barnsley at St Andrews Church, Penrith 7th May 1823 shows his mother as Ann Barnsley but no father named. This generally indicates the child was illegitimate.

Andy

[Ruskie]

Righto now I am a little confused.

George Barnsley born 7 May 1823 married Anne Gates on the 27 Mar 1847 Liverpool.
His father is Thomas Barnsley.

So ...

The record on Familysearch which says that George Barnsley was born 7 May 1823, his father Thomas Scott Barnsley and his mother was Ann Gates is incorrect? 

George Barnsley was illegitimate - his mother was Ann Barnsley, he did not know his father, and when he married he may have told a fib in saying that his father's name is Thomas Barnsley?

Or ...

Thomas Barnsley is his father and Ann just called herself Barnsley when she baptised George? Her maiden surname is unknown?

Have I got that right?

[andycand]

Hi Ruskie

I'm confused as well, the record in the IGI you refer to is a Community Contributed Record and should, like Ancestry Family Trees, be treated with caution. The christening record I have posted is extracted from the Parish Register.

George and Anne who married in 1847 look to be in Uffington, Lincolnshire in the 1851 census.
  HO107; Piece: 2094; Folio: 570; Page: 29

George 29 born Penrith, Cumberland, National School Master
Anne 28 born Keswick, Cumberland
Thomas S 3 born Northampton, Northamptonshire
John G 1 born Northampton, Northamptonshire
Mary Anne 2mo born Northampton, Northamptonshire

A check of FreeBMD shows that the S for the oldest child stands for Scott and I did wonder if Georges father was in fact a Thomas SCOTT and not Thomas Barnsley, and that his parents were not married as the christening seems to indicate.

Andy