Author Topic: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)  (Read 27864 times)

Offline johnlancelotcrozier

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 07 October 14 17:43 BST (UK) »
Yes, I did know about a couple of these with AFB - one of them was with my partner's Great Grandfather - John Lancelot Crozier.  John Crozier was living with his Uncle Anthony - George Barron's brother and Anthony's then wife Ann Pearson.  John was not charged with the robbery even though he admitted he was the one who actually helped with the theft.  His uncle Anthony was arrested but also not charged but Ann was convicted and imprisoned - John Crozier was about 14 at the time - around 1852 - we have newspaper evidence about all of this including confirmation that AFB was John Crozier's uncle

John 'Crozier' married in 1859 and on his marriage cert he names George Barron - Gentleman as his father.  John married in the Cathedral of St Mary - Clayton Street West.  John also named his first son, John 'George'.

John Crozier's mother, Janet Crosier/Crozier was never married and died 1850.

We believe George Barron to be John's father- most likely the police superintendent - with the link of Anthony Foster Barron being his uncle or George Barron - Farmer/Cattle Market Inn Proprietor  - although he was already married to Jane at this time. 

Janet Crosier lived in very close proximity to this George at the time of John's birth.

We just wondered if you knew or had heard anything about this?

Yesterday, I put Antony Forster Barron into a web search and your postings about your Barron family appeared linking exactly with our research. 

Regards
Ray 

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Patrick B

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 07 October 14 18:44 BST (UK) »
Hi Ray

This is extraordinary! I really was pleased to read your reply.

I have to say I knew nothing of this. I did know the robbery case that you refer to in 1852 where AFB is mentioned as John Crozier's uncle, however I wrongly assumed it was by marriage on his wife's side.

George Barron, Police Superintendent, was given a pension pay off when North Shields Police became Tynemouth Borough Constabulary in 1849, afterwards he is referred to in most documentation as a Gentleman, even as far back in 1844 his marriage certificate lists him as such. Bearing this in mind seems that you are probably right in assuming him to be the father especially as AFB is referred to as his uncle.

George Barron 1808-71 was one the first Newcastle Policeman upon its formation in 1836, afterwhich he became a Police Sergeant in Sunderland upon it's formation in 1837, before becoming Chief at North Shields in 1840 (it seems he was the only applicant). I don't know how much you know about him but I have seen the Police records form both Newcastle and Sunderland which give a fairly detailed account of his activitys. But these Barron's are a strange lot, forever skirting between the law and crime. David Barron 1815-76 was also one of the first Sunderland Policeman in 1837 before he was sacked after 3 weeks for neglect of duty.

That's all for now

Patrick

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline johnlancelotcrozier

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 07 October 14 19:42 BST (UK) »
Thanks for a swift reply and what you have to say is very interesting.

Now to extend this 'history' a little further.

John Crozier moved from Newcastle to Islington with his family, so by the1871 census he is living there and becomes more and more affluent.  Bearing in mind he is a House Painter when he moved to Islington, where does he get the money to buy more and more properties?  Did he get an inheritance from George Barron, remembering GB died in 1871?  I see that George Barron, in his final census, is a 'ship owner'?  However, looking at GB's Will there doesn't seem to be that much money and he leaves it all to his wife.

Bearing in mind that in the 1881 census John Crozier is now a  'Gentleman' living on his  'Own Means' living in a very large house - Halton House - in Islington and he owns MANY houses in Islington - in his will he left almost 4000 to his son, Arthur Alexander Crozier who is my partner's grandfather.  I think this was a fortune then wasn't it and he owned many houses in the area!

Over the next 10 years John 'Lancelot' Crozier - which by the way, 'Lancelot', he never uses again after his marriage cert.  It seems to be a 'Barron' name - even now!

Where the other George lived - the 'Cattle Market Inn' proprietor - was very near to where John's mother - Jane Crozier lived - she ran her own grocery shop and was part of, 'Crozier Corner' in this area - have you ever heard of it?

Offline Patrick B

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 07 October 14 20:16 BST (UK) »
Hello Ray

This is certainly very interesting, I would like to know more. I have had some thoughts of my own on this?

You mentioned that John Crozier was born in 1838, Newcastle. I checked George Barron 1814-53 (Innkeeper) on the 1851 census, his daughter Margery aged 12 was born in Newbrough, Northumberland in 1839; it seems likely that George farmed at Newbrough with his father William 1786-1847, because this links in with a Letting advertisement in the Newcastle Courant, December 1839, whereupon William is ending his tenancy of Newbrough and Nunbush Farm before the family moved to Newcastle. What all this seems to mean is that John Crozier's father could not have been George Barron the Innkeeper as neither he nor his family were in Newcastle in 1838, so his father must have been George Barron the Police Superintendent.

Something else I happened upon. George Barron's brother, William 1813-1892 was also a Newcastle Policeman, he married 1840, Margaret Crosier (a relative? The father was John Crosier (dec) Miller, one of the witnesses was a James Crosier). In any event William quit the police in 1841 when he refused to accede to the terms a misconduct hearing; apparantly a certain Jane Crosier reported him for entering her house and removing certain household items, the whole thing was settled in her favour when it turned out the matter was a family dispute

That's all for now. I can't easily answer your question on Crozier's Corner, I do know that many of these tenement yards etc were often ad hoc named after the occupants, maybe that was the case.

Best wishes

Patrick

Offline johnlancelotcrozier

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 07 October 14 21:37 BST (UK) »
Jane Crosier/Crozier was John's mother so it may of been her - I may have said Janet was John's mother but it wasn't - sorry but that was John's eldest daughter who died in Islington - she was abt 28.  A little confusing.  They also had a complicated life - and so it goes on .....

I hope we can keep in touch - have you got the 1841 Census for George Barron the Policeman?

Offline johnlancelotcrozier

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 07 October 14 22:51 BST (UK) »
Forgot to mention.

John Crozier's mother, Jane, did have a brother John and a niece Margaret born abt 1831, they lived at 12 Fenkle Street, St John in the 1851 Census but the year dates don't match with yours.

Jane by this time had died in 1850 and John Lancelot Crozier was in a Workhouse.

Offline Patrick B

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 09 October 14 10:36 BST (UK) »
Hi Ray

Sorry about the delay in replying.

1841 census: George Barron age 34, is resident with 6 other Policemenat Norfolk St Police Station, North Shields, Tynemouth.

Just some thoughts about George Barron's Will in 1871. I happened upon an article in The Morpeth Herald dated Feb 1866, headlined 'MONEY TO BE LENT' 'between 300 & 1000 ready to be lent on Freehold House Property at 5%, apply to Mr George Barron of Crofton, Blyth'

Like you stated earlier, I think there was definitely more money about at some point than what was left in 1871, it seems that George and his wife Ellen had no children, and maybe as you suggested it got to John Crozier somehow, presumably before 1871.

I mentioned in an earlier message that most of the Barron's are buried at Westgate Hill Cemetery, Newcastle upon Tyne; the majority are buried in graves C242-252, George Barron and his wife Eleanor are buried further along in a purchased grave, C286, Anthony Forster Barron is buried in grave C287, I wonder now if this close proximity of the two brothers gives us a hint of a close filial relationship between the two in life, particularly in light of what we know from the newspaper article from 1852 where George's son, John Crozier, is mentioned living with his uncle, AFB.

A few other things you may not know about George Barron (1808-71).

George Barron (1808-71) seems to have been something of a policing pioneer. He appears to have been a Newcastle Night Watchman, enrolling with his brother Thomas (1811-1865) in September 1835, before joining the newly formed Newcastle Police Force in March 1836 in the first wave of volunteers. Thomas Barron (1811-1865) is my ggg grandfather he joined Newcastle Police along with his brother William (1813-1892) in September 1836. Thomas disappears from the Police records at this stage, whilst William remained with the Force as Constable until May 1841 before resigning. The Police Minutes at this time state that they are looking for strong, healthy recruits it seems that the Barron boys were just the type of raw material wanted (which probably meant mean and tough)

Upon the formation of Sunderland Police in November 1837, George Barron was appointed Sergeant in the newly formed unit, many of the Police Officers were poached from Newcastle (or maybe George was running away from something?). His Police enrolment details describe him as 6 foot 1 inch in height, born in Hexham, and previously served with Newcastle Police. He resigned in July 1840 to become Superintendent of Police at North Shields. The records for North Shields are fragmentary, however were you aware of the silver snuff box that George Barron was presented with from a grateful client in March 1846 inscribed Presented to George Barron, for his efficient services as Chief Officer of the North Shields Police, March 7th 1846

I would like to know more about John Lancelot Crozier? I find this an amazing twist to the Barron Family tale! When was he born? Was he baptised? When did he marry? Die?

Jane Crosier? How old was she when she died? Margaret Crosier, wife of William Barron (1813-1892) was born about 1816, the 1851 census states she was born in Morpeth, but I haven't been able to trace a baptism. Do we know anything of Jane Crosier's background?

Best wishes

Patrick


Offline johnlancelotcrozier

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 25
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 09 October 14 16:09 BST (UK) »
Thanks Patrick for your very detailed reply.  Later, I shall go through and answer your questions in detail.

Just quickly, I too have the 1841 census for George Barron 1808-1871.  Is the place where he was living very far from Jane Crosier 1805-1850, and where she was living with John and her sister Ann, Lower Friar St., St john, Newcastle-upon-Tyne.  George Barron the Innkeeper, in the 1841 census is living very near in Thornton - that's why I was convined he was the father, although married with children.  However, you explained that when John Crozier was born c1838, this George Barron was not living there.

I have found a John 'Barron' born in Hexham in 1838 - but there are so many Crozier's and Barron's in this area it becomes quite crazy!

John's birth year is listed as 1838 in the 1841 census - aged 3 but on his Marriage Cert - 6th August 1859 to Janet Maria Gray his age is listed as 23 - suggesting he was born 1836.  I think he and his wife possibly did not tell the truth here making themselves older because she had not reached age of consent.  I need to check with other family members if we do know for sure the correct birth date.  However in all other evidence the year is either 1838 or 1839.  They married at St Mary's Catholic Church, Clayton St West Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Regards

Ray

Offline Patrick B

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 54
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Hexham - The Barron Family - Roman Catholic (part 1)
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 09 October 14 18:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Ray

Norfolk Street at North Shields was about 6 miles from Newcastle. North Shields in 1841 was probably the main sea port in the north east, it was everything you could imagine a rowdy sea port to be, full of sailors, crime ridden and dirty. George Barron would have had his work cut out.

Low Friar Street was more or less the street connecting Newgate Street to Westgate Road in the west of the town. I mentioned in an earlier message the close link between the family's of David Barron (1785-1846) and his brother William (1786-1847), and most of the Barron's from both family's lived in this area in 1841. Margaret Barron (1818-1903) lived on Low Friar St prior to her marriage to Henry Forrest. Ann Young (1809-1869) formerly Barron lived on Newgate St with her family. William Barron (1813-1892) and his wife Margaret also lived on Newgate St. Whilst George Barron the innkeeper, son of William Barron (1786-1847) lived on Thornton St, which was a street off Westgate Road, along with his wife and younger siblings.

I do know that Slaley, Northumberland, which comes under Hexham registration district had a large Barron presence  in 1838, I reckon that John Barron born there probably belonged to those Barron's.

That's all for now

Patrick