The Mystery of Muriel's Marriage - NSW or Queensland ????

[cando]

Kylie ....Electoral rolls to 1980 are online and anyone who pays a subscription to the websites which have the rolls, may view them.  Electoral rolls are also available at many libraries. Electoral rolls can also be viewed at Electoral Offices. In other words the information is in the public arena.

Rootschatters use Private Messages so the information isn't in the public arena.  The messages can only viewed by the sender and receiver.

I notice that the answer to where and when Muriel married hasn't come to light.  I can't see a registration in either Queensland or Victoria.   I understand  Muriel was born in NSW in 1918 so the birth registration will be online next year ie after the date she was born in 1918. Birth registrations/certificates are restricted to the general public for 100 years in NSW.

Jan there is at least one public tree including Muriel as well as your wonderful website   I haven't looked any further.

And these
http://www.monaropioneers.com/nimmitabel/pioneers/tivey-m.htm

Cheers 
Cando

[Kylie67]

Cando... I don't need to pay to see the electoral rolls to know both my parents are on there. I just said my father finds it intrusive people sharing his details, and I agree with him. After all, people he doesn't even know are delving into his mothers life. No one knew her as well as he did and he's old and all of this brings back some very happy but also some very unhappy memories for him. We, as her family, know all her details and out of respect for him, they will remain with us until such time as he is no longer with us.
I don't believe that is too much to ask!

[majm]

Hi there Kylie,

You mentioned that Harold was not on the electoral rolls because he was not an Australian, and I offered a reason for the likely sightings that are included in various posts on this thread.  I did not notice your comment about that possible explanation.   

I do agree that it can be thought intrusive to find your own name and address on those historic rolls that are readily available free to search via various Public Libraries, and of course to find the details of deceased family members there too.  However, sharing details of deceased persons is one of the key aspects to family history research, and no laws are infringed by sharing those details (even in the public domain). 

 In my view, one of the greatest things about RootsChat is that there's a strict policy about not naming living people on the public forum threads, so may I please support other RChatters and assure you that the PM system is there to assist in respecting privacy rather than invading privacy.   

JM edited to add (even in the public domain).

[Kylie67]

Hi MJ.
I appreciate what you're saying and I do understand. I would like people to try understand the feelings of Muriel's family. I have emailed with Jan in the past regarding my grandmother and the reason I was unable to give her some information is down to the fact my father doesn't want it shared with strangers. That is his right and I respect that.
Kylie

[majm]

We all have family, some families are closeknit and others not so.  I am sure we all strive to respect our families, so yes, I am sure we understand.   I can understand that your paramount concern is that your father's wishes are respected and I am sure we have not disrespected him in anyway.  We can appreciate too that there are other children and grandchildren for Muriel and they will also have memories of her and they too will expect their wishes regarding Muriel to be respected.  Afterall, that's part and parcel of being family.

I am sure Jan is a responsible family historian, and has always acted with respect for all the TIVEY families being researched. 

Purchasing publically available BDM certificates is one of the many ways that the research can be validated, and when purchasing death certs from Queensland BDM we all appreciate that these are not available until 50 years after the death of the named person.  Queensland laws restrict access to the general public for 100 years for births, 75 years for marriages and 50 years for deaths as they too respect the privacy of the individuals named in those official records.   

Muriel's certificate that Jan purchased and then asked about in her opening post shows Muriel's death occurred 5th August 1961, Jackson's Estate, Cribb Island, Brisbane.  Several children were named on that official certificate and Jan did not disclose their names in that opening post, out of respect for them and in complying with RChat's policy about naming living people.  None of us knew if they were living or not, but we all chose to assume they were still young enough to be living, so we did not type their names up online in the forum.  RChat forums are easily found via Google search.   

Jan purchased that certificate in 2014 (as per her opening post) so she purchased an official record that anyone, not just family but anyone, any member of the general public, can purchase for around $20.00 (it may have been less in 2014).   

So yes, I am sure we do understand.   

JM

 

[Kylie67]

JM, I apologise for mistyping your initials in the last message.
My father is the only child with memories of his mother. She passed before becoming a grandmother. I don't understand why this need for people to know her business! She was born, she died. That is all that's really required to fill in the family tree.
I don't care about what documents are available online. I care about my families privacy, that's all.

[Jan Ann]

Kylie,
I understand your predicament and I have asked the moderator to remove the topic from the board,  once and for all - so far she has refused to do so, because rules havent been breached.  I have made a further appeal to her and await her decision.

It really wasnt my intention to upset your dad or yourself.  This post was in 2014 BEFORE we spoke privately about your grandma  and the  information you gave me in 2015, has not been  disclosed or discussed with anyone else, and as your wishes at the time -

As for the comment about family trees (and history) being just about dates born and died, far from it. My project is about preserving family stories, documentation, photographs, newspaper items, personal achievements, it is a project that will hopefully last for generations to come, for those who have an interest in their ancestors lives.  I have invested 12 years of  my life discovering the lives of the various Tivey Generations around the world, my project has probably cost me thousands of pounds of my own money, and thousands of hours of my time. 

I have NEVER disrespected a family's or individuals wishes, not to publish something. It is rare when I have been asked to do so, but nevertheless I ALWAYS respected the families concerned.

Again,  please accept my sincere apologies if the post upset you or your dad, as I said - I have asked the Rootschat moderator to remove the post - her decision is out of my hands.

Kind Regards
Jan Ann

[cando]

Kylie may I suggest that if you hadn't revived an old thread people wouldn't be interested in Muriel.  As family historians assisting one another with our research, the detective in some of us may search further. 

Your father is not named on the thread however if you do a search on google for Muriel TIVEY, then that's a different matter.  A web page contributed by her daughter name Muriel's children by their given names, both living and deceased.

There is also a public tree indicating Muriel had two partners and five children.

I think the thread should stay.

Cando

[majm]

Hi there,

I am quite sure that there's many RChatters and also our Global Moderators who would agree that I am keenly aware of the expectation to privacy of the individual and Australian Privacy guidelines.  I have read back and re-read back and gone over and over this thread, and I cannot see that any person's privacy has been infringed.   

I am sorry that Kylie's dad's response causes concerns, however surely it was on his learning that an Electoral Roll listing from perhaps the 1960s or 1970s has been accessed and shared with our Original Poster, so may I reiterate that such info was exchanged by Private/Personal Message and would have been recognised by both the sender and the receiver to be of a speculative nature for I am sure that such electoral roll information does NOT give names of the elector's parents, and thus would not, of itself, be identifying the elector as a son or daughter of Muriel, already known to have been deceased by the entry on the  1960s or 1970s roll.    The most recent online electoral roll for Australia is currently 1980.     It, like several earlier ones includes my name and address, and I am still enrolled under that same name and at that same address. 

I agree with Cando that the thread should stay.

JM