Cumming in Carmunnock - Cathkin - East Kilbride area

[DonM]

No Census for Flos in 1851 the records did not survive

In 1861 he is living with his Grandmother and Uncle Alexander, age 19 (ca 1842). 

[brucecumming]

The 1861 census has Agnes as an RC which would be unusual for an 1840s Presbyterian to change religion to RC.

Do you have Robert on the 1851 census with the McKernans?

There doesn't appear to be any official documents linking the Cumming family to Carmunnock parish

I don't know if Agnes actually took up the RC religion, but she was married in an RC church in 1848 (Penetanguishene, Ontario, Canada) to Daniel McKernan (he from County Tyrone, Ireland). However Agnes is buried in a Protestant cemetery in Barrie, Ontario while Daniel is buried in an RC cemetery.

Re: "official documents" family history passed on orally I think makes the link pretty solid that the family was there. As I said before James Cumming 1789-1846 is buried here and we have his OPR birth record in Carmunnock from 1789, etc. Robert's uncle Alexander Cumming (1827-1899) is buried in the same place, along with Agnes' brother John Cumming (1819-1895).

As indicated earlier, Robert himself may not have been born in Carmunnock - I have no proof of that myself - maybe others do.

Thanks again.

Terry

[Ruskie]

Over the years reading various threads here on rootschat it is fairly evident that some family stories are pure fiction. Not implying this is the case with your family, but sometimes even the smallest of errors such as place of birth, can be attributed to someone in a different generation or on another branch of the family.

Written records such as family trees put together in Victorian times can also have errors as these folks were very keen to trace families back to nobility and wealth, so perhaps bent the truth a bit to make things fit the way they wanted.

Similar with material published well after the date that the events happened. These can be a good starting point but I wouldn't rely on them solely. You need the documentation for proof.

[brucecumming]

Over the years reading various threads here on rootschat it is fairly evident that some family stories are pure fiction. ...

Thanks for that wisdom - I agree completely. I have encountered enough of that fiction myself in investigating all family lines over the last couple of years. I have asked questions of several people with regards to the Cumming line here where ever the info looked suspicious or I could not find a source attribution. I haven't always gotten answers back though.

I grew up with people (Robert Cumming's children) who of course knew him and knew his story. Thankfully people long before me captured some of the history. Allowances have to be made of course for 50 year-old recollections, etc. I only wish I had been interested in genealogy 40 years sooner ...

Terry

[sancti]

There is a small booklet of deaths in Carmunnock Parish pre 1855

There are no Cumming surnames listed, the closest being Cumin and Cummin which all mention Cathkin.

Who is the mother of Agnes Cumming?

[brucecumming]

There is a small booklet of deaths in Carmunnock Parish pre 1855

There are no Cumming surnames listed, the closest being Cumin and Cummin which all mention Cathkin.

Who is the mother of Agnes Cumming?

I haven't had much luck searching for any death records in general.

The parents of Agnes Cumming (b May 25, 1821) were James Cumming (1789-1846) and Agnes Craig of East Kilbride (bc1795). James and Agnes were married Jan 2, 1813 in Carmunnock.

There are probably 25-30 surname variants for "Cumming" so it is not surprising to find differences there. For all searches I do at Scotland's people I always select "surname variants" before searching. It looks like the spelling trends changed over the decades or centuries based on the public documents I've looked through.

But then again, when looking at some of the old Scottish record books online, you see general spelling inconsistencies sometimes from sentence to sentence.

Thanks.

Terry

[sancti]

Has their arrival in Canada been documented?

Could they have left Scotland before the 1841 census?

[brucecumming]

Has their arrival in Canada been documented?

Could they have left Scotland before the 1841 census?

On an earlier post in this thread I included a link to an old thread that quoted info of their migration:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCOTS-IN-CANADA/2007-01/1168706145

That indicates 1844. I read somewhere from another relative that Alexander Cumming may have come over in 1842 on a "scouting trip" but I have no evidence of that myself.

Oral history says that Robert came from Scotland and every document indicating country of origin for him states Scotland. So I do not think he was born in Canada.

BTW I made a factual error earlier - his Jan 1871 marriage entry said Robert was 29 (not 26 as I stated), putting his birth year back to 1841/42 (consistent with other birth date estimates), not 1845.

Thank you.

Terry

[sancti]

Possible 1841 census entries for the family in Glassford.

Alexander showing living with the Brown family, address transcribed as Fiall

James, Agnes and daughter Agnes on a separate entry with address showing as Fiall with a Robert Livingston with them. Interesting that Agnes called her son Robert