Cumming in Carmunnock - Cathkin - East Kilbride area

[Ruskie]

Possible 1841 census entries for the family in Glassford.

Alexander showing living with the Brown family, address transcribed as Fiall

James, Agnes and daughter Agnes on a separate entry with address showing as Fiall with a Robert Livingston with them. Interesting that Agnes called her son Robert

This looks very promising. Robert Livingstone is 20 years older than Agnes.  But, possible ... and very tempting to put two and two together.  Do the ages of this family tie in with the ages of your family Bruce?

The next thing to do would be to search for these people in 1851 to see if they are still around ...

Sancti, would you recommend that Bruce buy some credits from Scotland's People to see this census image? I am not familiar with the Scottish censuses (apart from the index on Ancestry) but presume the 1841 does not tell us much.

[sancti]

Family relationships are not shown on 1841 census and birthplaces not given other than in the county or not

[brucecumming]

This looks very promising. Robert Livingstone is 20 years older than Agnes.  But, possible ... and very tempting to put two and two together.  Do the ages of this family tie in with the ages of your family Bruce?

The next thing to do would be to search for these people in 1851 to see if they are still around ...

Sancti, would you recommend that Bruce buy some credits from Scotland's People to see this census image? I am not familiar with the Scottish censuses (apart from the index on Ancestry) but presume the 1841 does not tell us much.

I actually found these Glassford entries many months ago (downloaded with credits from Scotland's People as you suggest) but discounted them because the Agnes (who should be Agnes Craig born in the 1790s and married in 1813) is listed as age 35 which puts the birth at 1806 - even 1802 if there is some rounding. That doesn't seem right - married at age 11. The ages for James (49) and Alexander (13 I think it says) are close and Agnes Jr 20 is close too.

There are so many women named Agnes (I call them Agnii) too that I automatically presume it is just another incorrect Agnes Cumming.

However, it does all sound interesting upon further reflection. Robert Livingston age 40 - who knows? Looking at the Livingston YDNA project at FTDNA it is interesting that "McLea" is included as a variation. The Cathkin farm owner was Walter Ewing McLae. All quite suspicious.

If the census age of mother Agnes was just a mistake (or vanity - wanting to appear younger?) then this could be a good fit. However I wonder about the other children such as Ann (1825-1895) and another Robert (1829-?) and why they weren't there.

Thank you and @sancti for the good sleuth work.

Terry

[Ruskie]

Family relationships are not shown on 1841 census and birthplaces not given other than in the county or not

Same as England - I thought as much.

[Ruskie]

If the census age of mother Agnes was just a mistake (or vanity - wanting to appear younger?) then this could be a good fit. However I wonder about the other children such as Ann (1825-1895) and another Robert (1829-?) and why they weren't there.

Ann would have been of an age to be working, possibly in service (living in). Robert possibly working too, but if you don't have a date of death for him, perhaps he died young (unless you know he went to Canada too)? 

All supposition which will need to be investigated though I do understand the (almost) impossible nature of the search due to such common names.

[Forfarian]

Possible 1841 census entries for the family in Glassford.
Alexander showing living with the Brown family, address transcribed as Fiall
James, Agnes and daughter Agnes on a separate entry with address showing as Fiall

I think this is a mistranscription of Flatt, which is what FreeCEN has. Flatt is in the north-western part of Glassford, very close to the parish boundary with East Kilbride.
See http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=55.73768&lon=-4.14565&layers=5
Use the slider labelled <> at lower left to see the satellite view. West Flatt seems to have gone, but there are still buildings at East Flatt.

See also http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/ns6451 and
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS6551

However FreeCEN also has the older Agnes' age as 35.

[brucecumming]

I think this is a mistranscription of Flatt, which is what FreeCEN has. Flatt is in the north-western part of Glassford, very close to the parish boundary with East Kilbride.
See http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=55.73768&lon=-4.14565&layers=5
Use the slider labelled <> at lower left to see the satellite view. West Flatt seems to have gone, but there are still buildings at East Flatt.

See also http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/ns6451 and
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS6551

However FreeCEN also has the older Agnes' age as 35.

Thank you for this key piece of information. Checking Scotlands Places for place names, we can verify this. For East Flatt the occupier was noted as Archibald Brown. The 1841 census referred to shows the Cummings listed after Archibald Brown and family.

http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/lanarkshire-os-name-books-1858-1861/lanarkshire-volume-26/7

So I would conclude that these Cummings did reside at East Flatt in 1841. Reviewing the census handwritten place name I can see now that "Flatt" is what was written.

As you pointed out East Flatt is close to EK perhaps 1-2km from the Backrow farm where Agnes Craig was born and the Muckethill farm where she and James Cumming were at as late as 1829 (based on OPR birth records of their children).

The only reason for any doubt as to these Cummings being "mine" is the age discrepancy for the elder Agnes  Cumming (35 instead of 45).