John Goldie b 1797 Tynron

[Maggie Speak]

Hi Darlene, yes I have the same certificate. So now I know that Thomas's grandparents were NOT James Goldie and Anne Galt, I'm looking for sailors/mariners who lived in Shadwell, Middlesex. I have found likely ancestors in William Goldie who was a ships carpenter who came from Shadwell. He was (born in 1727, died in 1756) and married Ann Jackson found in a non conformist register in 1747 and they had a son William, in 1753 who was also a ships carpenter. He sailed on the "Sir Francis Drake" in 1811. I think this William MIGHT be the great grandfather of our Thomas Goldie, but I'm missing too much information at present to join up the dots.

I've also found a James Gouldey from Shadwell who was a merchant navy man, so he MIGHT be a relative, (perhaps grandfather or uncle?) allowing for spelling variations. When i figure it all out, I'll post back here with my findings

[BushInn1746]

G'day Mark,

thank you for your suggestions on methodology. I believe I have been quite thorough in eliminating the possible John Goldies who were living in Shadwell when his sons were baptized in 1824. I have son Thomas's marriage certificate stating who his parents were when he married in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia in 1854, so I know they were John Goldie (a seaman) and Sarah Ann Peart. Thomas had joined the merchant navy in 1838 in London when he was 16 years old and neither he, his brother or parents can be found in the 1840 or later censuses in the UK.

I have a marriage record of John Goldie of the Parish of St Dunstan, Stepney and Sarah Ann Peart of the Parish of Shadwell, marrying in 1819 in Tower Hamlets. Witnesses Sarah Peart (Sarah Ann's mother maybe?) and Mary Ann Nicholls. I did find a marriage of a Sarah Ann Goldie - widow, to John Smith (great!!) in St Dunstan, Stepney in 1826 and thought this might be Thomas's mother remarrying after John had died between 1824 and 1826, but as you can appreciate, looking for a John Smith in the census has been overwhelming and I have not found them living in Shadwell in 1840.

Hi Maggie

If John Goldie was a Seaman, he should hopefully appear in the Muster Rolls if they have survived and I posted a couple of links previously, including the Maritime Museum Archives at Greenwich. Greenwich was near to Shadwell.

Circa 1800 Muster Rolls (by Vessel/Ship name) should record Names, approximate Ages, Birthplaces & Abodes, of the Master, Mate and Crew, but sometimes not all the information was repeated in some Muster Rolls, so you may need to go forward or back in the Muster Rolls, to find a full entry.

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There was also a Company called John Goldie, with Sailings from Liverpool to London, in Gore's Liverpool General Advertiser 28 September 1826. Interesting that the Master looks to be Jno Jackson, but very very easy to find coincidences. Address John Goldie, 32 North Side, Old Dock, Liverpool.


Also a James Goldie, Commander of the "Traveller", P. Ritchie, Queen Street, in the Aberdeen Journal, 16 February 1820.


I see the surname Peart coming up (as a Master), in sailings.


Shadwell (West / WSW of Stepney).

Mark

[Maggie Speak]

Hi Mark, I'm just SO impressed by your willingness to help me. Thank you very much! Tomorrow I will follow through on the links you posted. Thomas had not described his father as anything but a sailor or mariner, so I suspect he never reached the lofty heights of becoming a master or owning a ship. But one of his relatives may have. There were a couple of wealthy Goldies who were attached to things nautical, lived in London but hailed from Scotland, but I'm pretty sure they were not related to "my" Goldies. I will let you know what I discover. Exciting to be on a new tack (pardon the pun!)

[BushInn1746]

Hi Maggie

Probably to rule out.

You also mentioned a Goldie and a Smith.

According to a Thames Police Court case Thomas Goldie, who had a Brother called John Smith (who also used a Johnson alias). Offence occurred at Shadwell, references to the shore, coal ships, barge and vessels there.

Reported in the Morning Advertiser 30 July 1840 (long column), sentenced to Hard Labour.

Mark

[Maggie Speak]

OoooooH now that IS interesting!

I'm not certain, but I think Thomas Goldie jumped ship when it got to Melbourne. He worked as a painter/decorator when he married, then went prospecting.

[BushInn1746]

Hi Maggie

In March 1840 there was a James Goldie, Esq., Chairman of the Commercial Gas-Light and Coke Company, Tower Hamlets.

Their Works were at Stepney and almost near completion in March 1840.


If you do a Newspaper search with "Goldie" and look in the Morning Advertiser, 1st October 1840, you will find an article titled "Commercial Gas Company" of their company celebration, mentioning Goldie the Chairman and how he was unable to attend due to ill health.


The Company records of the Commercial Gas Company 1838 to 1948 appear to have been saved and occupy 28.5 linear metres of shelving at the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA) Ref GB 0074 B/NTG-11.
https://aim25.com/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=14568&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=


The Company name is also bringing up the records of the London Gas Museum LMA 4223 which seems to be coming up with LMA references now.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/61b81fa5-23b3-4d8b-b9fb-f73a61a0bbb2


London Metropolitan Archives
The LMA catalogue (covering Middlesex) is another Archives Catalogue, you may wish to try a 'Goldie' search in, too.


Maritime Museum Archives - Greenwwich
But don't forget to enquire about the Muster Rolls, especially at Greenwich Maritime Museum Archives, if your man was a Seaman.


88 Whitechapel High Street
Interesting the Gas Company on Google also brings up this address.
https://surveyoflondon.org/map/feature/320/detail/
Which mentions James Goldie, Distiller (1838), reference cited refers to the Land Tax returns (originals LMA).

Also mentioned, was James Goldie a Scottish Distiller who had built a Distillery adjoining to the rear in George Yard (Gunthorpe Street).


You could try a Goldie and variations of spelling here
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/advanced-search
A lot of regional archives have their some of their archives listings (but not all) on The National Archives search.

Scotland and Wales, each have their national Archives, as well as Regional and County Archives.


Regards Mark

[BushInn1746]

Another thing to my reply immediately above ...

Was their 1819 Marriage by Licence or Banns (sometimes "Lic" / "by Licence" is on the Marriage entry)?

If so, only few Licences survive.

Application for a Marriage Licence - Bond and Allegation
However to get a Licence, there should be a 'Marriage Bond' and a 'Marriage Intention' also called a 'Marriage Allegation'. It is worth seeing these, to see who the Bondsman offering the £200 Bond was (on the Marriage Bond) and also if there might be any additional information recorded, often not much, but they must be seen, if Marriage was by "Lic" / "by Licence".

Sometimes, a separate Banns Register entry also survives, to the Church Marriage Register entry. I have both entries for an ancestor of mine (Mother's side of the family) around this early 19th Century period.

Mark

[BushInn1746]

Hi Maggie

Probably to rule out.

You also mentioned a Goldie and a Smith.

According to a Thames Police Court case Thomas Goldie, who had a Brother called John Smith (who also used a Johnson alias). Offence occurred at Shadwell, references to the shore, coal ships, barge and vessels there.

Reported in the Morning Advertiser 30 July 1840 (long column), sentenced to Hard Labour.

Mark

Hello Maggie

I am wondering if:-
John Henry Goldie was using John Smith (Court says he was the Brother of Thomas Goldie) and
Thomas Joseph Goldie had dropped his middle name, when caught by the Thames Police.

By 1840 they would be young men and I doubt their parents would be mentioned.

It appears they may have been in trouble at Woolwich reach with others previously, but let off and Goldie was known by Marston, a River Constable.

A Sarah Ann Goldie married a John Smith, at St Dunstan Stepney, London, 19 November 1826.
(Sarah Ann Goldie a Widow according to what you found)

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If the Parents Marriage (John Goldie & Sarah Ann Peart) was by Licence, then the Marriage Bond and Marriage Intention / Allegation are not online, the Archives which hold the Diocesan Record Archives, will hopefully be able to supply scans of them?

ADDED: but according to your Australian Marriage Certificate, it was John Goldie & Sarah Ann Peart marriage, which is of interest.

Mark