Author Topic: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron  (Read 2749 times)

Offline Maggie Speak

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Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« Reply #9 on: Friday 10 August 18 00:21 BST (UK) »
Thank you to both Mark and Trish for your helpful posts. I too had seen the family memorial inscription online, which mentioned John Goldie's death at Isle (where is that???) in 1821. I tried to contact the site owner but got no response. If that death information is correct, then it proves that "my" John Goldie must have different parents and NOT James and Ann, because he fathered 2 sons in Shadwell London in 1820 and 1822, with both being baptized in October 1824 in Tower Hamlets, London, where it states John is a mariner. However, I have come across M I's with the incorrect information in the past, so I'm not dismissing yet...

I will contact Dumfries archives and ask them to check their MI records. Thanks for your help.

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Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« Reply #10 on: Friday 10 August 18 08:11 BST (UK) »
Thank you to both Mark and Trish for your helpful posts. I too had seen the family memorial inscription online, which mentioned John Goldie's death at Isle (where is that???) in 1821. I tried to contact the site owner but got no response. If that death information is correct, then it proves that "my" John Goldie must have different parents and NOT James and Ann, because he fathered 2 sons in Shadwell London in 1820 and 1822, with both being baptized in October 1824 in Tower Hamlets, London, where it states John is a mariner. However, I have come across M I's with the incorrect information in the past, so I'm not dismissing yet...

I will contact Dumfries archives and ask them to check their MI records. Thanks for your help.

Hello Maggie

I presume you have worked methodically your personal GOLDIE line backwards from a known family member of yours with BOTH:-
Civil (Death, Marriage & Birth Certificates - Not all Marriages were in Church, so not all Marriage Certificates are online, requiring the GRO Index to be searched)

and the

CENSUS (taken every 10 years 1841 onward, available currently to 1911)?

There are a few Census missing, but by & large they are complete from 1841 onward.


A few relationships in Scotland were by 'Habit & Repute' (Common Law Marriage, with no Registration).


England, especially the Cities and large Towns were very densely populated 19th Century (compared with British in Australia), so the Census (and any Wills if they left one) are a valuable family history tool, along with Certificates, backward from a personally known Ancestor.


Where are your earliest known family in our Census?


John is a most popular first name and there may be 100s of John Goldie alive at any one time in 19th Century Britain, waiting to be discovered.

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

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Offline Maggie Speak

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Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« Reply #11 on: Friday 10 August 18 10:47 BST (UK) »
G'day Mark,

thank you for your suggestions on methodology. I believe I have been quite thorough in eliminating the possible John Goldies who were living in Shadwell when his sons were baptized in 1824. I have son Thomas's marriage certificate stating who his parents were when he married in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia in 1854, so I know they were John Goldie (a seaman) and Sarah Ann Peart. Thomas had joined the merchant navy in 1838 in London when he was 16 years old and neither he, his brother or parents can be found in the 1840 or later censuses in the UK.

I have a marriage record of John Goldie of the Parish of St Dunstan, Stepney and Sarah Ann Peart of the Parish of Shadwell, marrying in 1819 in Tower Hamlets. Witnesses Sarah Peart (Sarah Ann's mother maybe?) and Mary Ann Nicholls. I did find a marriage of a Sarah Ann Goldie - widow, to John Smith (great!!) in St Dunstan, Stepney in 1826 and thought this might be Thomas's mother remarrying after John had died between 1824 and 1826, but as you can appreciate, looking for a John Smith in the census has been overwhelming and I have not found them living in Shadwell in 1840.

Another researcher suggested that John Goldie's parents were James Goldie and Anna Galt of Tynron and that he died in 1881 in London. I don't think this information is correct. I think it's also a stretch to suggest the MI in the Tynron churchyard could be incorrect in saying John died in 1821, so that rules him out. So just who were his parents?

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Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« Reply #12 on: Friday 10 August 18 11:01 BST (UK) »
G'day Mark,

thank you for your suggestions on methodology. I believe I have been quite thorough in eliminating the possible John Goldies who were living in Shadwell when his sons were baptized in 1824. I have son Thomas's marriage certificate stating who his parents were when he married in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia in 1854, so I know they were John Goldie (a seaman) and Sarah Ann Peart. Thomas had joined the merchant navy in 1838 in London when he was 16 years old and neither he, his brother or parents can be found in the 1840 or later censuses in the UK.

I have a marriage record of John Goldie of the Parish of St Dunstan, Stepney and Sarah Ann Peart of the Parish of Shadwell, marrying in 1819 in Tower Hamlets. Witnesses Sarah Peart (Sarah Ann's mother maybe?) and Mary Ann Nicholls. I did find a marriage of a Sarah Ann Goldie - widow, to John Smith (great!!) in St Dunstan, Stepney in 1826 and thought this might be Thomas's mother remarrying after John had died between 1824 and 1826, but as you can appreciate, looking for a John Smith in the census has been overwhelming and I have not found them living in Shadwell in 1840.


Hi Maggie

Tynron looks wrong, if the M.I. online is a correct transcription from the Memorial? I wonder if the Memorial is still there, to check 1821?

Pity about the 1841 Census? It should confirm if Birth was same County - Yes / Y;  No / N; or Scotland / S or Ireland /I, etc.

The ages of adults in the Eng & Wales 1841 Census are usually rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5 years.


A fellow Rootschatter managed to find an 1850 Merchant Navy Master's Certificate online (for me) with place & date of Birth. But that was a Master's Certificate for someone residing Yorkshire.


National Maritime Museum - Greenwich
Some Seaman appear in Muster Rolls, with birthplace and abode given in the Muster. If not online, these may still be with a Museum or Archive, like the National Maritime Museum - Greenwich.
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/archive.html#!asearch


Other Muster Rolls - Saved by the Public Record Office (TNA, Kew, search 1820 to 1840)
Some Ports not named (Record set incomplete)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/4?_aq=muster&_cr=BT&_dss=range&_sd=1820&_ed=1840&_ro=any&_st=adv

But those for London may be at Greenwich


Trinity House, London
There was also a Trinity House, London for Seafarers, some of their records have survived two fires, with some searchable online.


But do you know his Vessel name and also his Port at all, it can sometimes help when searching, (where they are not transcribed)?

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Offline trish1120

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Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« Reply #13 on: Friday 10 August 18 12:35 BST (UK) »
The Tree may have just been guessing when John died.

"Isle" may be anywhere if he was at Sea when he died.

One Tree even has another child to John/Sarah, Mary Ann 1830/31
(from what I can see she was the Daug of John/Lucy, Johns occp Trade)
So I think this is the Upholsterer John.

FreeREG has no Burial for John Goldie in Tyron, if living in Shadwell I think it unlikely he would be taken back to Scotland to be buried in those days.


Trish :)
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Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline robbiesmum

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Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« Reply #14 on: Friday 10 August 18 18:34 BST (UK) »
Hi
I've had a look on the british newspaper archive and found this:
May 31st 1821 Caledonian Mercury
At Isle of Nith on the 25th curt., Mr John Goldie, third son of James Goldie Esq. of Knockcauchly.

No idea where these places are but it could confirm the date of 1821?
robbiesmum

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Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« Reply #15 on: Friday 10 August 18 20:29 BST (UK) »
Hello all, I am trying to confirm the death of John Goldie b 1797 (parents Jame Goldie and Ann Gault) who possibly died in 1821. I've sighted a website which suggests the info came from a headstone in Dumfriesshire. The exact wording is   Name: John GOLDIE
Born: 25 SEP 1797      at: Tynron, Dumfries, Scotland FHL Film 1067971 
Married:                  at:   
Died: MAY 1821       at: Isle 



Hello Maggie

Have you considered his Death (if elsewhere) might be recorded on a local Family Memorial Inscription - where he was born, at TYNRON?


Not seen, but found this online ...
TYNRON GRAVEYARD
Erected to the Memory of
James GOLDIE, late of Stenhouse, who died at Glencrosh November 1839
Ann GAULT his wife, who died at the Manse, Kirkgunzeon, January 1818
John GOLDIE his son, who died at the Isle May 1821
Alexander GOLDIE, H.E.L.C.S., who died at Tata, East Indies, November 1839
James GOLDIE their son, who died at Knackauchle May 1860
Also Jean GOLDIE their daughter, widow of James DICKSON, late of Glengaber,
who died at Glasgow December 1878



Perhaps contacting the Archives at Dumfries and ask them to check the above Memorial Inscription, with their M.I. records?

Mark


Hi
I've had a look on the british newspaper archive and found this:
May 31st 1821 Caledonian Mercury
At Isle of Nith on the 25th curt., Mr John Goldie, third son of James Goldie Esq. of Knockcauchly.

No idea where these places are but it could confirm the date of 1821?
robbiesmum


Brilliant! Thank you Robbiesmum, Maggie will be pleased.

That confirms the 1821 death and apparently he can be ruled out.

The Nith was a River.

According to an 1831 Dumfries newspaper, the Isle of Nith, Parish of Dunscore.

Mark
"George HOOD of Selby" Before 1812?

Born about 1785 (Yorkshire per 1841 Census)

Married Sarah RUSSELL at Selby 1815 newspaper - "both of that place".

Buried in the Quaker Burial Ground at Selby as "Not in Membership" in 1845, aged 60 years.

George HOOD of Selby was refused Membership of the Quakers in 1836.

Elected Overseer of the Poor of Selby in 1838.

Had both known (Selby) and unknown (some not stated 1846) property interests.

Possible (but unknown) links to COOK and/or PEARSON names.

Offline Maggie Speak

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Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 11 August 18 01:38 BST (UK) »
BRILLIANT indeed! Thank you Robbiesmum ;D That solves a 4 year old mystery.


In the British Royal Navy & Royal Marines Service And Pension Records, 1704-1919 there is a John Goldie, a gunner on the Triton in1848 and Niger in 1852 who was paid off in 1856. However, his wife was Margaret whom he married in Kilwinning in Scotland.
There's another merchant navy man John Goldie from Pitenween who married Jessie and had a daughter Margaret.
Merchant navy number 571714 is a John Goldie from Sligo and also a John Goldie number 95169 from Paisley. So the last two are worth me following up, if only to discount.

Thanks once again for your help. I'm thrilled at clearing up the James Goldie/Ann Galt connection (or lack of it! ;D)

Offline Darlene1937

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Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 11 August 18 04:13 BST (UK) »
Hello Maggie, I have a copy of Thomas Goldie & Ann Moran Marriage  at St Francis church, Melbourne dated August 3rd 1854, his birth place London, her's Tipperary, His age 28, her's 21...His father John Goldie, Sailor, mother Sarah Peart,...her parents Michael Moran & Judith Meara, ..
Thomas occupation given as Plasterer. ....at this time....  :) Darlene