William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW

[knows a lot]

MAGISTRATE’S HEARING – 19 OCTOBER 1866 – GOULBURN POLICE COURT
Nicholas Thomas was charged with committing a rape on the person of Martha Davis, wife of William Davis, a ploughman at Willeroo. Davis and his wife were brought up in custody as unwilling witnesses. Senior Constable Dee deposed to apprehending prisoner by virtue of a warrant, charging him with the offence in question. He said that the charge was false.
William Davis deposed : The woman referred to in his information as his wife was not his wife, but was living with him ; her proper name was Holmes; on the 13th, while out ploughing, heard a great noise and saw Martha Holmes at the door; she was screaming and crying; heard her call prisoner a wretch; had previously heard her say “I shan’t” and “I won’t”; asked prisoner what he was doing; he made no reply, but went off; Martha Holmes never charged him with committing a rape.
Martha Holmes deposed that the prisoner had merely tried to kiss her and had asked her to go away with him and he would marry her.
Prisoner was discharged.

[judb]

What a wonderful lot of research which makes very interesting reading.    Thanks for sharing

Judith

[knows a lot]

I have about 100 A4 pages of data, maps, photos, and Australian history relevant to my Davis and Orme related ancestors and descendants. I do not follow only the male surname line, but include some family history of females married into the line. Quite a lot of old photographs of persons and places of interest.
Gathering of information and the research has been a mind blowing exercise. Sometimes leading in circles when incest and inter family affairs (or whatever) are uncovered.
Many of you researchers have probably experienced all the setbacks, etc. that I have experienced.
There are some instances where facts have been uncovered by me, which have previously been unknown. One of those facts was the family surname change from Orme to Holmes. Other reseachers had encountered a brick wall trying to uncover older records.
I had also encountered them until one day I was looking through the little old notebook that belonged to my grandmother. The one that she wrote down all the relatives names and birth years etc. I saw a tiny bit of writing at the bottom of an old page "Martha Holmes (orme)". That caught my attention and started to research the surname of Orme. It eventually opened up the previous history and made many other researchers (including relatives I did not know) aware of those then unknown facts.
The Berrima District Family History Society helped me with several items and I will forever be indebted to their knowledge and assistance. Several years ago, I forwarded printed and CD showing all the known details and photographs etc relative to my family history. Those records are in their archives. Since then there has been several small snippets added into my own records, but have not sent them to the Society as yet.
Overall, I am happy that I commenced doing family history. I have gained a lot of knowledge of Australia and the early days of what it must have been like, for the poor and underprivileged within society. It has enriched my admiration for the empathy of farmers and property owners of those early years in Australia's history.

[jemappelle]

That was very interesting reading and I have come across a lot of this information before but it was great to see it all ordered - thank you very much.   

I had a local historian research the William Davis who died in Berry in 1892 and she says he is not related to the William Davis that married Martha Orme/Holmes.  This is what she said about the William that died in Berry:

William DAVIS died at age 50
   Born 1842 in Burragorang, Picton, NSW
   Died 27 Nov 1892 in Berry, NSW
   Buried  28 Nov 1892 in Berry, NSW* 
  Ref:  Aboriginal
Father:
Mother: 
1873:  Abode Burragorang, Picton, NSW
1890:  Abode Kangeroo Valley

Wife:  Charlotte Aboriginal
Married:  6 Aug 1873 in Burragorang Picton, NSW   his age:  31  (Cert no 1873/3672)**
Born:
Died:
Ref:  Aboriginal
1873:  Abode Burragorang, Picton

*  my research shows an unmarked grave at an unknown Berry cemetery
** I am unable to find that certificate on the BDM website

I have a copy of one of William and Martha's son's birth certificates that shows William was born in Mittagong and was 57 years of age when he registered the birth of Sydney James on 27 July 1885.  However, other birth certificates vary on his age and place of birth! (Sense of humour needed for family history research)

I met a second cousin who happened to be researching William at the same time I was at the Shoalhaven Family History research centre and she said her mother remembers being told something about a wagon wheel.  William's death certificate shows that he died when falling off a load of hay.

I guess we will never know for sure but I tend to think what 'knows a lot' has posted is part of my ancestry. 

[judb]

The marriage is listed on NSW BMD

NSW 3672/1873 registered at Picton   
William DAVIS
Caroline   (no surname given)

You can search NSW BMD with just the Reg No and year.
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?2
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx

Judith

[jemappelle]

Thanks Judb.  Obviously I couldn't find it because the numbers were the wrong way around!  I've had quite a break from family research so am out of practice with that sort of thing.  Thanks again. 

[knows a lot]

 ELLEN PETERS (c1818 – <1899)
also known as Ellen Meggett, Ellen Orme, Ellen Holmes, Helen Walker

JOHN MEGGETT (c1808 – 1842)
WILLIAM ORME (c1805 – 1863)

On 8th May 1837, an Ellen Peters married a John Meggett in the Christ Church at Bong Bong (near Sutton Forest). Ellen was recorded as age 19, native born, free, spinster and a resident of Inverary.  The parish of Inverary was named after the original large property called Inverary Park,  located near Bungonia (east of Goulburn). The Peters family were possibly employees at that property. Marriage record reveals Ellen was illiterate. Consent was given by her parents, but their names were not recorded. Her parent’s names are currently unknown. No birth record has been found for Ellen, but her birth year would be circa 1818.  It is reasonably possible that Ellen might have been part aboriginal, due to Ellen recorded as “native born” (born in the colony). Ellen’s name was possibly Helen, but pronounced with a silent “H”. 

One witness at Ellen’s marriage was a William Peters of Inverary, who was probably a brother or more likely, her father. He also was illiterate. Another witness was Isabella Chubb of Sutton Forest. She also was illiterate. A census conducted in 1828, shows a William Peters (convict) working for a Mr. Walker at Bungonia. Also recorded is a Richard Peters as the head of a household located at Sutton Forest.  There was a Joseph Peters, who married at Parramatta in 1823 and moved his family to Berrima, then Bungonia and finally settling at Marulan circa 1827.  Another William Peters was recorded working at Inverary in 1837. That William Peters was a convict who had arrived at Sydney in 1829 via the ship Claudine. He was granted a ticket of leave in 1836. He could not have been the father of Ellen Peters, but maybe he was her step-father.

Ellen Peters had 2 known marriages. Her 1st husband, John Meggett,  was an ex convict. Surname pronounced as Medjet. He had arrived in Sydney on the “Royal Charlotte” in 1825 and obtained his Certificate of Freedom on 29th August 1831. Convict records show his surname spelling as Meggitt.  In those same records, he is also noted as having previously used alias names of Henry Fowler and William Steward.  John Meggett is recorded in the 1828 census (shown as Maggot and Meggit). He is recorded as age 26, a fireman at Darling Mills, Parramatta. He also was a patient at Hospital Parramatta in 1828 whilst in the service of a John Raine (a landholder of 3000 acres of cultivated land at Parramatta).

When John Meggett married Ellen Peters in 1837, the church record shows John as being 29 years of age, Bigger, Co St. Vincent, Bachelor.  John was literate. His signature is recorded in the original church record. The word Bigger is an old Scottish name for a builder. The county of St. Vincent borders the eastern side of the parish of Inverary. John was possibly employed as a labourer on a property near Inverary, maybe in the police district of Shoalhaven, near the parish of Yalwal, but the birth place of John and Ellen’s first born child causes doubt insofar as the previously mentioned word Bigger is concerned. There is a town called Bigga and it is located about 80 kilometres north east of the present day towns of Gunnary and Boorowa. Bigga was originally a large property, but was not in the county of St. Vincent. 

John and Ellen’s first child, Charles Meggett, was a cripple and eventually was admitted to the Liverpool Benevolent Asylum in 1864. Charles was born in 1838 at J. White’s, Canary Creek, west of County King. The birth record shows his father (John Meggett) as a labourer for J. White. (From 1826 onwards, a James and John White (brothers) were squatters on 10 square miles of land which later formed part of the parish of Gunnary and the present day town of Young). It is highly certain that the Canary Creek was actually Gunnary Creek.  Pronounced as Gun-nary. (Nary as in Mary).

Ellen also had a daughter, Jane Meggett, born 13 December 1840 and registered at Goulburn. 

[knows a lot]

On the 13th August 1842, Ellen’s husband, John Meggett, died at Lumley.  Records reveal that John and Ellen were then residing at Lumley (known as Lumley Park which was located near Bungonia and the landholders were Robert and Margaret Futter).  The death certificate of 1842 officially shows John as age 30, but the age of  30 conflicts with his age 29 when he married 5 years previous in 1837.  His birth year is probably c1808.
 
On 12 August 1843 at Bungonia, John’s widow (recorded as Ellen Maggitt), had a second marriage to a William Orme and he became stepfather of Ellen’s children (Jane and Charles). William Orme was also an ex convict and had been transported to Australia on the ship “Lady Nugent” arriving Sydney 9thApril 1835. He was born in Derby England circa 1805 and sentenced at Derby Petty Sessions on 1st November 1832 for stealing meat.  Sentence was 7 years transportation as a convict to Australia.

The convict ship’s 1835 list of male convicts, has William Orme recorded as a shoemaker, could read and write and was married.  He was a protestant, age 30, height 5’ 4” of ruddy complexion, brown eyes and chestnut hair. Cast outwards on right eye, scar over left eyebrow and back of left thumb. Four moles on right arm near the elbow.  His wife did not accompany him to Australia.  He was granted his Certificate of Freedom at Bungonia on 22nd May 1840.   

William and Ellen had 8 children born from 1845 to 1861.  All those children were probably born at Jacqua and their residence is on record as being Gayley Flat, Yarralaw. (The parish of Yarralaw is close to Jacqua and Bungonia). William Orme was recorded as a labourer and a shepherd and died at Yarralaw on 14th April 1863 at the age of 58.  He was buried at Bungonia on 17th April 1863. After his death, Ellen suffered extreme poverty and destitution. Neighbours supported her in one way or another. Reverend Procter (of Bungonia) and his wife Margaret, took in one of the children and a neighbour took in another. Ellen’s first child, Charles Meggitt (who was a cripple) was admitted to the benevolent asylum at Randwick and her youngest son, Richard Orme (age , was admitted to The Orphans School at Parramatta. Those instances were all during 1864.

Details of Ellen’s 2 known children of the 1st marriage, plus the 8 children from 2nd marriage, are:-

Charles Meggett – born at Gunnary – 19 July 1838
Jane Meggett  -  born at Goulburn – 13 December 1840
William Orme  -  born at Bungonia (probably Jacqua) in 1845
Mary Ann Orme  -  born at Bungonia (probably Jacqua) in 1847
Hannah Orme  -  born at Jacqua in June 1849
Martha Orme  -  born at Jacqua – 18 October 1850
Agnes Orme  -  born at Jacqua – 12 June 1854
Richard Orme  -  registered Goulburn (probably born at Jacqua) 12 July 1856
Emma Orme  -  born at Jacqua – 13 January 1859
Frances Orme  -  born at Jacqua – 2 August 1861

There are other  references relating to Ellen Orme.  In 1877 at Willeroo, a Mrs. Ellen Homes was a witness at the birth of Martha Helena Davis. Martha Helena’s mother was Martha Davis nee Orme who was commonly known as Martha Holmes as early as 1866). Also in 1877, two other children of Ellen (Richard and Frances) were also recorded at Willeroo.  It is highly certain that Mrs. Ellen Homes was our Ellen Orme.  Ellen’s  2nd husband (William Orme) had died in 1863. Ellen had most likely remarried again or assumed the Holmes surname of a de-facto husband. When some of Ellen Orme’s children married, they were using the surname of Holmes. (In 1841, a Robert Holmes was recorded as the owner and resident of Jerrara, a large property along the northern bank of the Bungonia Creek).  After 1864, Ellen Orme and her children were possibly looked after by Robert Holmes and this could explain the reason why Ellen and some of her children adopted the Holmes surname). Ellen’s daughter (Martha Davis nee Orme) had a 2nd marriage in 1899 and the marriage record shows her mother’s name as Helen Walker and deceased.  Cannot locate any records showing a marriage of Ellen Orme, Meggett (or similar) to a Holmes or Walker .

[knows a lot]

Ellen died sometime between 1877 to 1899. Cannot locate any death records of an Ellen Orme/Meggett (or similar).  There are several death records of an Ellen Walker and a Helen Walker, but due to not knowing Ellen’s parent’s names,  it cannot be ascertained which death record could, or would be appropriate.  The 1828 census, reveals a William Peters in the service of a Mr. Walker in the Bungonia area.  Whether William Peters was a father or brother of Ellen, is unknown. Whether the above Mr. Walker has any relevance to Ellen Orme (later known as Ellen Holmes and then Helen Walker), is also unknown. In 1880, an Ellen Holmes (aged 59) died at Sydney. Parents names recorded as unknown. It is possible this person could be our Ellen Peters.

When Ellen Orme’s son, William Orme (junior), married in 1870, his surname is shown as Horn. His six children were recorded as either Horn or as Horm, but when each child married, every surname is recorded as Holmes and they married at Cowra, Orange, 1 at Mudgee in 1893 and 1 at Wattle Flat in 1894. Wattle Flat is between Bathurst and Mudgee. About the year 1900, at least 3 of those families moved further north to the Tenterfield and Glen Innes areas.

William Orme’s sister (Martha Orme) had married in 1869 and surname is shown as “Orme aka Holmes” (aka is a term for “also known as”). In 1866, Martha was already using the Holmes surname. The surname of Holmes was also used by several other family members. Except for William Orme senior and John Meggett, documents uncovered for the above, indicate that each person was illiterate.
 
Jane Meggett was recorded as Maggot or Maggitt  and when she married in 1857, she had apparently adopted the Orme surname of her stepfather, but the record was transcribed as Jane Arms. The spelling of Orme was recorded in many variations,  i.e. Arme, Arms, Horm, Horn, Ormes, Holmes, etc.  The spelling variations were probably due to combinations of illiteracy, transcription and adoptions.