Author Topic: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)  (Read 12112 times)

Offline avm228

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Re: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 09 October 14 13:59 BST (UK) »

I have been unable to find the origins for this Thomas Honey, or where he is in the 1841 census. He was dead by the 1851 census.


How is it known that Thomas was deceased by 1851?

I see that an intestate estate of a Thomas Honey of Devonport was administered by a John Honey in 1854.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Online ciderdrinker

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Re: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 09 October 14 14:02 BST (UK) »
It seems he was still alive in 1851
1851 census Church St Stoke Dameral
Margaret Honey/Henry on Ancestry 42 wife of carpenter at sea St Neots
William 13 Devonport
Ellen 5 Devonport
So Thomas must still be alive
Ciderdrinker

Offline NNR

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Re: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 09 October 14 15:30 BST (UK) »
Wow! You guys never cease to amaze me. Thank you so much!

I'll take the replies as they came in:

1861 census (transcribed as Soney!): - thanks! I already have this.

1871 census: - and this!

Are you sure about this marriage date?  I wonder what the source is.  In Dec qtr 1841 I can see a Thomas Honey marriage in Totnes, but others on the page are Jane Blumpey, John Bolt and Ann Gilbert, according to FreeBMD. - I took the marriage date from someone's FT on ancestry. I see they've got it wrong. I had seen an earlier reference to an 1830 marriage, but the gap between that date and the arrival of Ellen gave me some doubts. However, the link with the Caledonia (and John Honey!) does solidify this. Thank you!

Very few parish registers from Devon are online, so finding the baptisms is going to be difficult? - thanks for the links!

After his nonconformist baptism he was baptised in the C of E at Stoke Damerel on 18 December 1831, as Thomas Honey.  Parents: Thomas (mariner) and Margaret, of Devonport. - I did have this reference, but had dismissed him due to the gap before 1845. However, the father's occupation does confirm this for me. Thank you!

They went on to have another Thomas, born 4 Feb 1838 and baptised 8 July 1838 at Stoke Damerel. Parents: Thomas (mariner) and Margaret, of Devonport. - and again, thanks!

At the same parish in 19.11.1820 a John Honey marries a Mary Ann Spargo ,the couple you have already found on the 1861 censuswith Ellen Margaretta Honey. - great! This helps confirm the uncle/niece link for me.

It looks like Mary Ann and Margaret Spargo were sisters both born in St Neots Cornwall daughters of John and Mary Spargo.Baptised Mary Ann 30.12.1798 and Peggy 20.9.1807 at St Neots. - thanks!

There is a burial for Margaret Honey aged 45, of 1 Chapel St, at Stoke Damerel on 13 May 1852 (death was on 8 May). - This seems likely to be her. I wonder where she was on the 1851 census? I've searched, but haven't found her yet. Ah, she's been found (see below!) Thank you!

Slightly earlier than expected from the naval record (c1803-4 birth), but a Thomas Honey born 6 Sep 1802 was baptised at Stoke Damerel on 1 Dec 1802, son of John & Sarah. - Looks feasible, but I thougth most of these records weren't available yet?

How is it known that Thomas was deceased by 1851? - Thomas sailed with Sir John Franklin to Northern Canada in 1845 and - like the rest of the crew - was never seen again.

I see that an intestate estate of a Thomas Honey of Devonport was administered by a John Honey in 1854. - Could well be the right one. It took several years before people were convinced all the crew were dead.

It seems he was still alive in 1851 - He was certainly assumed to be alive, and he might have still been at the time, but word didn't reach England for a while longer that the crew had been wiped out.
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

Offline avm228

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Re: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 09 October 14 15:42 BST (UK) »
Thomas sailed with Sir John Franklin to Northern Canada in 1845 and - like the rest of the crew - was never seen again.

It took several years before people were convinced all the crew were dead.


Goodness - what a story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin%27s_lost_expedition

www.rmg.co.uk/explore/sea-and-ships/in-depth/franklins-last-expedition

I see that the expedition had set out in 1845.  John Rae's 1854 expedition brought back evidence of the crew's fate - that would indeed tie in to the 1854 administration of Thomas Honey's intestate estate.

How agonising for the families left behind.

Is a full crew list available?

Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


Offline NNR

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Re: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 09 October 14 15:50 BST (UK) »
1851 census Church St Stoke Dameral
Margaret Honey/Henry on Ancestry 42 wife of carpenter at sea St Neots
William 13 Devonport
Ellen 5 Devonport

Just wondering if William is listed as a son here?

And for the other query - here's the full muster of the ships.

http://www.ric.edu/faculty/rpotter/muster.html

It's been in the news recently, as HMS Erebus has just been located after all these years.
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

Offline avm228

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Re: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 09 October 14 15:56 BST (UK) »

Just wondering if William is listed as a son here?


He is. Given his age it looks likely that William is the same person as Thomas baptised in 1838.  Later censuses show a Thomas Honey of the right age born in Devonport.  1881 shows him as ship's carpenter, in Stoke Damerel, with a wife Maria.

I haven't seen anything to suggest that Thomas & Margaret had a William. 

If they are one and the same, "William" in the 1851 may be an enumerator's error, or it may be as case, as sometimes happened, where a family used an informal alternative name for a son who shared his father's name to distinguish him until he moved out of the parental home.

Incidentally the family's address in that 1851 census entry is 1a Chapel St - corresponding almost perfectly to the address of 1 Chapel St on the 1852 burial of Margaret Honey.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline NNR

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Re: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 09 October 14 16:07 BST (UK) »
"Thomas Honey born 6 Sep 1802 was baptised at Stoke Damerel on 1 Dec 1802, son of John & Sarah."

Regarding this reference, is there anything similar around 1796 giving a John Honey as the son of the same John and Sarah?
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

Offline avm228

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Re: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 09 October 14 16:22 BST (UK) »
"Thomas Honey born 6 Sep 1802 was baptised at Stoke Damerel on 1 Dec 1802, son of John & Sarah."

Regarding this reference, is there anything similar around 1796 giving a John Honey as the son of the same John and Sarah?

No, but he claims to have been born in Buckland Monachorum (per 1851 - Buckland per 1861) and if he was baptised there one wouldn't currently expect to find it online, as ciderdrinker said.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Origins of Ellen Margaretta Honey (b. April 1845, Devenport)
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 09 October 14 16:29 BST (UK) »
John Honey is 65 in 1851; 75 in 1861.

So one would expect a birth c1786 rather than c1796.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)