Author Topic: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives  (Read 11733 times)

Offline JustinL

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Re: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 16 October 14 14:14 BST (UK) »
The fact that two wives were included in the enlistment list threw me too. If you click on the database title above the search results, you will be taken to an explanation of the database contents. Although originally established as a list eligible for conscription, its contents grew.

I agree entirely about the gap between Rebecca and Dvora, but unfortunately there are no extant birth records to help us fill that gap.

On the basis that neither Nathan nor Rachel occur in any other generations, I am rather doubtful that they were George's siblings. Jacob is a more likely candidate, but then we can only speculate about the origins of George's second name.

In the original records in Russian and Yiddish, all the names would have been in a patronymic form.

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Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 16 October 14 14:51 BST (UK) »
we don't have any records with George jacob's original spelt 1st names
 If Jacob  or Nathan married in Prestwich or lancs  his marrige records would give parents names . or if I find any children maybe their given names will reflect their ancestry ;
It's been suggested that the World war generations may have changed their surnames ..some Blochs became Blacks ...I wonder what Fellman became

ps does anyone have any idea why when I search a Fellman page on any of the latvian SIG site the surname Blumenau also comes up .....could it possibly be an alternative older spelling for this family ???
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

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Offline JustinL

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Re: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives
« Reply #29 on: Friday 17 October 14 08:49 BST (UK) »
As George did not marry, the only hope of establishing his Hebrew/Yiddish name would be if it had been engraved on his headstone - where ever that may be.

It is certainly worthwhile investigating both these men (Jacob and Nathan). As you say, a good starting point would be to look at their children's names.

Some families certainly did change their surnames for a variety of reasons, but two common reasons were to mask Jewishness and/or German origins. There would have been no compelling reason to change Fellman to anything else; the names appears in English records from the early 17th century.

When you are searching for Fellman (or variants) in the LatvianSIG database do NOT use 'sounds like'. I use 'starts with' Felma and Fellma.

I'm going to have a look at the original Russian/Hebrew records from Jakobstadt to see if I can identify Gesa-Eida's father.


Offline JustinL

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Re: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives
« Reply #30 on: Friday 17 October 14 12:48 BST (UK) »
I've looked through the records, which to my surprise were maintained in German and Yiddish until 1886, and there is no indication of the name of Gesa-Eida's father.

This Yiddish part of her death registration (the right-most column) simply reads:

the woman Gesa Eida
the wife of Leyzer Mendel Felman

The column to the left of that reads kindbett, which is still in modern German usage as the 6-8 period after birth.

By chance, I stumbled across a further sister of Leyzer Mendel.

Esther, daughter of Leib and Sora Felman, was born in Griva on 1 May 1860.

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 25 December 14 15:43 GMT (UK) »
Thanks so much for finding this document ;although i don't want to widen my search to distant uncles+ aunts . knowing that Leib's wife was called Sore does give an extra confirmation that Leizer-mendel would have named one of his daughtres after his mother .
Could be  Sore Fellman  aged 16on passenger lists from Liverpool to Philedelphia tailoress in 1905
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives
« Reply #32 on: Monday 29 December 14 23:59 GMT (UK) »
ps Rebecca's death cert list her parents  names as  lazarus fellman+ Edith Landsman 

marriage record of Leizer -mendel fellman to 2nd wife has her as Sheina Landman

 from Pm ;
30 March 1889 Dvinsk/Dunaburg
Leizer-Mendel Felman, widower of Jakobstadt
and
Sheina, daughter of Ruvin Landman, aged 22 .

This begs the question, was Sheina the sister of Leizer-Mendel's first wife?

Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 30 December 14 10:55 GMT (UK) »
My ggfather is listed in 1920 hospital admissions as being 2nd of 12 siblings ,2 dead
here are the children of Lazarus /mendel/Samuel Fellman
name varients and dates ( birth registrations in jakobpils ) :  probable   married names 
                                                     
with 1st wife Gies -Ada (Edith) ;                                                             

no 2 George Jacob born 1971 died 1924  (ggfather)                       
 
 1 eldest sibling may be Barnet Fellman born 1870         m.sarah + had 5 children in Russia before going to USA1903
 
3 Rebecca  born between1871 and 1875                       m. benjamin bloch Manchester + scotland

4 Dvora 1879-died 1880
5 Mera /mary /may 1880 31st dec                                   m Mose Ginsberg in USA
6 Bera Betsy Bessie 16th feb 1882                                     Ely Ness USA
7Aaron mottel 1883-died 1884
8 sora sarah celia 30th may 1885                                         m. george Devine ?

9 david 6 nov 1886                                                                m sadie Froelich
 
with 2nd wife sheina /jane /jeannie nee Landman

9 (not included in total) Taube 1890- died 1891
10. Khaya 17th april 1891 Tilly /Matilda

11 gertrude golde gertz b cheetham Lancs UK 1892
 12 Esther / Ester /estelle b cheetham 1897                         m Jack Clifford USA
 
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 06 May 15 10:53 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone for all your help
 
I'm sending an article to Family tree mag about tracing Nana's birth father George jacob Fellman with various pics + documents to illustrate story + research procedure

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708494.msg5637559#msg5637559
 
 link to the siblings  from Birkenhead to USA


now have enough info + documents to write one about The Amazing name changing Fellman family
The changes refer to theirr first names the consistency of the relatively rare spelling Fellman has helped a long way in tracing this Family


Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Finding Great grandfather's Russian Latvian relatives
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 07 July 15 09:41 BST (UK) »
Update ; it's actually 11  Fellman siblings I needed to find .Plus 6 halfsiblings (3 had died by 1910 census)
 My grandfather George jacob was the 2nd   born 1870

 Rebecca  born around 1870-72          became Mrs  Bloch died 1960 aged 88

Found another brother
Barnet (Benjamin) J Fellman b.approx 1876 who  went  to USA in 1899. married Lena Ratner


 the deceased 2 were
 Aaron-Mottel b1883
+ Dvora b1879

Other definites are ;
 Mera (May),1880    became May Ginsberg d1976 aged 93
Basa/Bessie  b.1882                                         Bessie Ness d1980   aged 98
Shora/ Sarah/  b.1885                                      Celia Levine (aged43 in 1940 Brooklyn census)
David b 1886                   watchmaker in Birkenhead aged 14 1901census. went to USA 1904

 I believe the unbaptised brother b1888 would have not counted among the   12
So I'm still missing  3 full siblings

The 3 surving half siblings were ;
 Matilda  Fellman         b1893 according to mancs schoolrecords       became  Tillie Jampolsky in1912 NY

Gertrude b.lancs 1892         1910 census a sales lady in Brooklyn

 Esther b.lancs   1897                                                   Estelle Clifford  1901-1987 d.aged 86

deceased;
 khaya  b1891 .b Riga .. Rebecca mancs school records  don't have death date
 
taube b1890   deceseased in prestwich 1891

was the other deceased a boy ?

 

Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay