Author Topic: Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s  (Read 4403 times)

Offline Oldlands

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Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s
« on: Friday 17 October 14 20:03 BST (UK) »
Hi
I am researching a series of Catholic baptisms and weddings in the mid/late 1700s in Winchester, Hampshire. A lot of the records are from ST JAMES RC church. But when I looked it up on the lists of churches in Winchester in the 1700s, it isn't listed.
Was it called anything else?
Is it actually in Winchester?
Could the people whose children were baptised there have married in St John's church (C of E E)?
(Or would the two never have crossed being different religions?)
Would they have been buried elsewhere - can find no death records for any of them or their siblings.
(The specific ancestors are: Teresa PAYNE b 7.8.1808, parents Guilielmi (William) PAYNE & Anna Maria (Anne Marie) HALE b 9.1.1776, poss grandparents Roberti (Robert) HALE b 1734 & Mariae (Mary) COX b 1744.
Any advice gratefully received. Thank you so much...

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s
« Reply #1 on: Friday 17 October 14 21:14 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat.  :)

All couples of whatever faith (except Quakers and Jews) had to marry in an anglican church at that time.

William and Mary Ann married at St John's (an anglican church) in Winchester in 1795.  Robert Hale and Mary Cox also married at St John's.  I can't find any baptisms for the children in the CofE records, and wouldn't expect to.

The burials of Robert & Mary Hale are recorded in the RC burial records of Winchester in 1804 (aged 80) and 1801 (aged 58) respectively.

There is a small Roman Catholic cemetery located on Romsey Road in Winchester near the prison and the hospital.  Further east Romsey Road becomes St James Road and there are other streets with the name St James.  I think the church was in this area, but it certainly doesn't exist now.

Nell
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Offline Oldlands

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Re: Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 18 October 14 14:55 BST (UK) »
Wow Little  Nell,

Thank you so much. I have now found the record for the William PAYNE and Mary Anne HALE marriage. What is slightly odd is that a William Payne married a Maria MORLEY the day before at St James RC church. I had originally assumed Mary Anne Hale was a later second marriage to the same William. No doubt though that Mariae Anna Hale is the name given for the mother for William's  post 1802 children in the St James baptism entries (the earlier ones starting 1797 just give the mother as Mariae - but that could just be a change of person recording?? ).

I guess with your super sleuthing abilities you can find no marriage record for Teresa Payne (daughter of William & Mary Anne Hale born 7.7.1808 & bapt at St James Winchester the same day) ???

It is possible she next turns up in Leigh Nr Tonbridge Kent as mother (to a Jane) baptised there in 1839 married to a Harry Head b Dorset. (1841 and later censi tend to support this with her dob and Winchester birth place.) But I can find no marriage records to prove it either way.

And thank you so much for your help to date. You're a star.

Offline Little Nell

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Re: Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 18 October 14 21:28 BST (UK) »
I've not managed to find a marriage record for Teresa and Harry  :(  at least not in Hampshire.  Was Jane their first child?

Nell
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Offline Oldlands

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Re: Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 19 October 14 01:04 BST (UK) »
Hi Little Nell

Yes, Jane is the first child (of many) that I have found recorded. But that is at Leigh near Tonbridge, Kent. Teresa then appears to have then settled in that area with Harry until her death. I guess as she was born in Winchester and her husband (if he is Harry HEAD) came from Dorset, there is a possibility they could have had children elsewhere... though, if so, they don't appear in the 1841 (or subsequent) census. I can find no records for them of a marriage in the Wealden (Kent) archives for the area.  ???

Offline Triciawk

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Re: Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 11 January 15 06:33 GMT (UK) »
Regarding St James' church, I read somewhere that the pope gave permission for the priest in the late 1600s to leave his post as there were no parishioners, following the plague in 1665. Winchester was very badly affected by plague throughout the centuries because of the many streams here. There is still a pub called St James' Tavern near the little Catholic cemetery mentioned above.

Offline Triciawk

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Re: Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 11 January 15 06:37 GMT (UK) »
This may also be of interest to you. It refers to the beautful Milner Hall, St Peter Street, Winchester, which is still in occasional use.

"In Winchester Mass was said in secret until the appearance, about 1740, of a chapel converted from a shed in the garden of the resident priest, John Shaw. Dr John Milner arrived in Winchester in 1779 and extended the existing chapel in 1784. Then, in collaboration with his friend, John Carter, he rebuilt it: it was consecrated on 5 December 1792. This was of importance as the first church in England to be consecrated since the Reformation and also as an example of the burgeoning Gothic style."

Offline dee-jay

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Re: Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 24 January 15 08:17 GMT (UK) »
This may also be of interest to you. It refers to the beautful Milner Hall, St Peter Street, Winchester, which is still in occasional use.

"In Winchester Mass was said in secret until the appearance, about 1740, of a chapel converted from a shed in the garden of the resident priest, John Shaw. Dr John Milner arrived in Winchester in 1779 and extended the existing chapel in 1784. Then, in collaboration with his friend, John Carter, he rebuilt it: it was consecrated on 5 December 1792. This was of importance as the first church in England to be consecrated since the Reformation and also as an example of the burgeoning Gothic style."

Can you please quote the source of the above?
SOM/Chard/Combe St Nicholas/Ilminster:  Dean[e]/Doble/Jeffery/Burt;  DEV/Yarcombe:  Dean/Gill/Every; 
BRK/Newbury:  Westall/Green/Lewis/Canning;  WIL/Allcannings:  Hiscock/Amor;  Froxfield:  Hobbs/Green;  HAM/Kingsclere:  Martin/Hiscock/Westall;  WAR/Marton/Bubbenhall:  Glenn/Holmes;  STS/Yoxall/Hamstall Ridware/Barton-u-Needwood:  Holmes/Dainty;  STS/Brewood/Codsall/Penkridge/Hatherton:  Dean[e]; GLA/Aberdare:  Dean/Dane

Census information: Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline dee-jay

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Re: Winchester Roman Catholic churches in the 1700s
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 24 January 15 09:11 GMT (UK) »
Regarding St James' church, I read somewhere that the pope gave permission for the priest in the late 1600s to leave his post as there were no parishioners, following the plague in 1665. Winchester was very badly affected by plague throughout the centuries because of the many streams here. There is still a pub called St James' Tavern near the little Catholic cemetery mentioned above.

Publication No 1 of The Winchester Catholic History Group:  St Cross and The Cemetery of St James Winchester, p19 records the letter dated 21 April 1399 from Boniface IX declaring St James a non-parochial church discharged from the cure of souls following petition to the Pope from John Bouchour, the Rector of the Parish Church of St James, near Winchester, 'that the said church is situated in fields and has no bell, nor books, nor vestments and is without parishioners, and appears unlikely to have any in the future .....'    It appears the 'Great Pestilence' [Black Death] of 1348-50 was the likely cause, and the church had disappeared by the 1560s.   
SOM/Chard/Combe St Nicholas/Ilminster:  Dean[e]/Doble/Jeffery/Burt;  DEV/Yarcombe:  Dean/Gill/Every; 
BRK/Newbury:  Westall/Green/Lewis/Canning;  WIL/Allcannings:  Hiscock/Amor;  Froxfield:  Hobbs/Green;  HAM/Kingsclere:  Martin/Hiscock/Westall;  WAR/Marton/Bubbenhall:  Glenn/Holmes;  STS/Yoxall/Hamstall Ridware/Barton-u-Needwood:  Holmes/Dainty;  STS/Brewood/Codsall/Penkridge/Hatherton:  Dean[e]; GLA/Aberdare:  Dean/Dane

Census information: Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk