Author Topic: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees  (Read 65027 times)

Offline kiwihalfpint

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Re: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 18 November 14 18:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

These are the only ones for the Greenlees at Wanganui that are on my resources.   

Bertie Greenlees attended Mosston School, Wanganui on the 30 Sept 1893, leaving on the 22 May 1899.  Birth date recorded as 1887.   Parent/Guardian Mr Greenlees.

Alexander Greenlees attended Mosston School, Wanganui, admitted on the 14 Sept 1893, left on the 22 May 1899.   Birth date was recorded as 1887.   Parent/Guardian Mr Greenlees.  Address at that time was Mosston

James Greenlees, attended the Mosston School, Wanganui , admitted on the 23 Feb 1891, his last day was 3 Aug 1892.   Parent/Guardian - Mr Greenlees.  Address at that time was Mosston.

Mabel Greenlees attended Mosston School, Wanganui , admitted on the 18 Mar 1895, birth date as Dec 1889, left 22 May 1899.  Parent/Guardian Mr James Greenlees.  Address at that time was Mosston.

Emily Greenlees attended Mosston School, Wanganui, admitted on the 12 Oct 1896.  Left on the 16 Jul 1897.   Parent/Guardian was Mr James Greenlees.   Address at that time was Beaconsfield.

Charles Greenlees attended Mosston School, Wanganui, admitted on 26 Jan 1898. Left on the 22 May  1899.  Birth date is shown as 29 Jun 1891.   Parent/Guardian Mr James Greenlees.   Address at that time was Mosston.

Cheers
KHP
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Offline Elizajb

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Re: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 18 November 14 19:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Everyone,

First, I must apologise for my tardy reply - a family birthday interrupted my sleuthing!!

Thankyou all very much for your help, I knew that fresh eyes would unearth things I had not thought of myself.

Whiteout - the Fernglen immigration record you found is my man, I have quite a bit on his background and Emily's. He emigrated to New Zealand with Emily and two children shortly after the birth of son James. When I could not find his death on the NZ death index or the burial locator, I contacted the Wanganui council to see whether he had been buried with Emily at Aramaho and not recorded, but they got back to me to say that he was not buried in Wanganui as far as their records showed.

Thankyou Maddy, but the 1913 Australian death is not the James I am looking for. However, not to say he may not have gone to Australia, I just don't know. It does seem a possibility though with the lack of any sign of him in New Zealand death or burial records.

Lucy - you have dug up several things I had not. Firstly, on re-checking the 1905-1906 electoral roll, I can see it is very possible that the James Greenlees recorded at the same address as Emily  was her son, not her husband. I had not thought of that, silly me! Son James did not marry till 1906 so quite likely.

 I did see the article you mentioned about Emily failing to send children to school regularly, but had been searching PapersPast using the 'exact search' feature and entering Emily's name and had not found her death notice in the 1915 paper (thankyou). I still can't find the Bereavement Thankyou notice of a couple of days later, can you remember what page it was on?

My feeling, based on what I do know of the family, is that it is not too probable that James would have returned to Scotland  (one can 'never say never' though) - he would be very unlikely to have had the money to do so, but I think Australia might be an option. I haven't yet obtained any of the marriage printouts for the children but may  have to to look for clues. I had been assuming that because Emily listed herself as married in the electoral rolls (I realised by then that she was apart from James) and that her death cert described her as a 'wife', that James had probably died at some point between her death in 1915 and Alexander's death in 1917 in France (as he was recorded as the son of the late James Greenlees). However, it's clear from records available that James was not a good husband or father, so may have been just given as dead by his children once he was out of their lives. In addition, the fact that I had overlooked the fact that the 1905 roll may be referring to James the son, not James the father, means he could have died or emigrated to Australia at any time from about 1903.

The 1903 Australian death is worth investigating further as well Lu, so thankyou for that. From memory, last time I looked at buying an Australian cert, it was very expensive, but I'll have a dig around and see if I can find any further clue to who this might be. By the way, where did you find the info on Alexander's will, another bit I had missed!

Lastly (excuse my marathon message, but want to cover all clues given) - many thanks KiwiHalfPint for the school records. I did not have those, although I knew the children had gone to school in Mosstown, so that is a really good lot of info to add to my growing file.

This has all given me further ideas to follow up on, so sincere thanks for all the time and effort put in by the "sleuthers extraordinaire" of Rootschat. Not much gets past a lot of you, thank goodness.

Kind regards,
Eliza
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Offline Janette

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Re: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 18 November 14 20:04 GMT (UK) »
Here is a link to Alexander's will

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-29794-5699-60?cc=1865481

Cheers Janette

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 18 November 14 21:39 GMT (UK) »

 and entering Emily's name and had not found her death notice in the 1915 paper (thankyou). I still can't find the Bereavement Thankyou notice of a couple of days later, can you remember what page it was on?

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz

... just use the "more search options" > select > "Wanganui Chronicle" + August and 1915 + Greenlees > both death, and thanks notice ( on p 7, column 7) will be returned.

  ~  Lu


Offline Elizajb

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Re: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 19 November 14 02:32 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou very much Janette and Lu, :)

Not only have you  given me further information I did not have, but you have also taught me some new places and ways to look for things, which will come in very handy.

I have never used the Probate record set from Family Search before, which is a big oversight on my part and, neither had I used the more intensive search options on the old newspapers site so I'm very happy to have picked up some more tips.

The will was interesting in that it left out two of Alexander's brothers, William and Charles, both of whom were alive. There must have been some sort of family rift - I wonder whether that might have had anything to do with the missing James, perhaps some of the children kept contact with him. Just conjecture, no way of knowing.

Anyway, I now have some ideas to try and track down James (I don't actually need his death really, but do like to tie up ends when I can) so many thanks again to everyone and thanks for the pointers Janette and Lu.

Regards Eliza.
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Offline Lucy2

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Re: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 19 November 14 04:01 GMT (UK) »
Eliza ... just also noting that Emily GREENLEES appeared on the 1900 Wises NZPO roll.

Wises NZPO roll - 1900
Wanganui
at Tay Street [in vicinity of Lowther and Russell Streets ]

GREENLEES - Mrs Emily


[Couldn't see a listing for James senr. in this particular year.]

Same roll for years 1903 / 1904 / 1907 / 1910 have a Jas. GREENLEES, labourer at Aramoho.
Emily is there in 1910 (Aramoho) and in 1913 she's  (alone) at London Street, Aramoho.

[Note:   Generally only the heads of households appeared on these early NZPO rolls.   Often women would be listed if they were running a business (say, a store, boarding house, hotel, dressmaking/millinery ... etc. ). ]

It's important to note also, that info from electoral and other rolls, should be treated with caution.   They don't always convey a totally accurate "picture" (PO rolls particularly were often not updated annually).  They are best used in conjunction with other information gathered.

  ~  Lu
 



Offline Elizajb

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Re: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 19 November 14 06:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lu,

Thanks very much for all your efforts again. I have just spent a wee while painstakingly 'pinning together' the electoral rolls and Wises for Emily and for James to see whether I can work out whether the James listed is James Snr, James Jnr or a mix of both. The upshot of which is that I'm not sure, but leaning towards it probably being James Jnr.

Emily is definitely with her husband in 1896 as James Jnr would have been too young to be on the roll then, but her 1900 roll gives exactly the same info for James as for 1896, so James Jnr might have had his first recording.

James Jnr married  in 1906, so maybe I should get his marriage printout to check for any address in case it should tie in with one of Emily's addresses. In addition, maybe it will say whether his father is alive or dead. If James snr was still around I would have expected to see a double up of the names in the rolls but I don't really.

Very inconvenient that they named a son James as well!

Regards Eliza.
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Offline Elizajb

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Re: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 19 November 14 21:11 GMT (UK) »
Well, that was fast!!

I ordered the marriage printout for James Jnr last night and it has just arrived. Extremely prompt.

Anyway, James and his bride Maud Mary Wadman married in Wellington in 1906. Their 'present address' was given as Wellington, but their 'usual address' was given as Wanganui. No clue why they would have been in Wellington. They married at the registrar's office with clerks signing as witnesses.

There is no note of any of the parents being deceased and on checking, I know that both of Maud's parents were still alive at the time and so was James' mother Emily. So - do I assume that James snr is alive as well? Did marriages commonly record if any of the parents had passed away?

Tricky!

Regards Eliza.
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Offline Lucy2

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Re: Help Needed to Locate Death of James Greenlees
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 19 November 14 21:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi Eliza  ... (had been going to mention it earlier ;D ) ... but unlike say UK certificates, it didn't seem to be common practice here in NZ for parents' to be shown as "deceased" on NZ marriage records.
(It probably wasn't a question that was asked ? )   

[It's something that has arisen in queries before in this forum > others have been puzzled by having confirmation of a death of a parent, and yet a child's marriage some time after the death (of the parent) doesn't reflect (record), that the parent is deceased.   Some brides and grooms would seem to have volunteered that information and the clergyman or registrar may (or may not) have seen fit to enter it on the official record. ]

   ~ Lu