Henry Monkton Herbert

[despair]

I had hoped to find a military connection through the regiments associated with the 10th Earl,but like everybody else I can't find any record in any of the Army lists,though the militias are more difficult to research.I've also looked as far as I can at the Honourable East India Company records,but,again,to no avail.It sounds from the tenor of the 1830s reports re the farm and the school at Arklow that he is hardly an active Captain in the Army at this stage(?),"not wanting to be a burden on the family",although he would probably be in his fifties at this stage.

Regards
Roger

[lefayre palmer]

How kind of you Roger to go to so much trouble! It is appreciated.
In Arklow and Wexford there was much fighting the 1798 rebellion being a horrible time for both sides. My Wexford family the Barlows are the ones closely associated with Pembrokeshire. I would not be surprised if this time period Henry Monkton Herbert could have been wounded which caused his inability to farm the Tinahask land. The lease of the land was taken out in 1816. Now we have a birth date of 1815 for Thomas William Herbert I wonder if he was actually born in Wexford.
Earlier census returns give him as born in Ireland and it is not until the 1891 return Wicklow is designated. This family has lead me a merry dance for so long that with gaps in between births when other children have been born a year apart makes me wonder just where they were. It is possible in between acts they returned to Slebech before ending up in Gorbals. Then again it might have had something to do with military service. Lefayre.

[despair]

A complete coincidence I'm sure,but the 10th Earl of Pembroke took over the governorship of Portsmouth from General Robert Monckton on the latter's death in 1782.While Robert was unmarried he had illegitimate children who I believe are accounted for.However he had a half sister,Mary, through the second marriage of his father,John Monckton,1st Viscount of Galway.
This Mary married Edmund Boyle,7th Earl of Cork in 1786.There was no issue from this marriage.She is buried in Monkton(sic) Vaults,Brewood,Staffordshire.What chance of a liaison
1782-1786?

Regards
Roger

[lefayre palmer]

Thank you again Roger, you are so helpful and may have come across the clue I need. This gels with a thought I had had that Henry Monkton Herbert was born out of wedlock. Perhaps to a Miss Herbert and  Mr. Monkton. In some cases the name has been spelt Moncton/Monckton/ and Monkton.
The time frame would fit the Henry Herbert who died in Mercers Hospital in 1844. Some public trees have him as born 1784.
Henry Monkton Herbert's daughter Jane Emily who as Jane Emily Herbert wrote many Irish patriotic books, married a Dr. Thomas Mills from Staffordshire and her brother Thomas William Herbert was vicar of St John Tipton Staffs.
It is raining today so it looks like a good day to explore my many Herbert files. Herbert has been an important name to my family my father having a brother with given names Sidney Herbert and a sister Gladys Herbert. Sidney and Gladys are Herbert/Pembroke names.
I am quite excited about your information, thank you.
Lefayre.

[despair]

I have read the biography of Mary Monckton in the Dictionary of National Biography and it contains no hint of an illegitimate child.She wouid have been approx. 38 in 1784.

Regards
Roger

[despair]

There are quite some coincidences(?) with your family names,as I'm sure you know.Sidney Herbert,1st Baron Lea was the son of the 11th Earl,George Augustus who had a sister Elizabeth Herbert also born 1809!.

Regards
Roger

[lefayre palmer]

Dear Roger, here I am again, I just can't let it go. Your last prompted me to look at the pedigree of Robert Monckton, well my head is in a whirl. I recognised the names Wybtranz, Westernra and Fountaine as being in one of the Irish pedigrees for Herbert. These Herbert pedigrees have females marrying Nash and Eyre Powell. Both the Nash and Powell families have lived in the Khyber Lodge and in Sorrento Road, Dalkey. Khyber Lodge was next door to Rockingham in which George and Elizabeth Herbert lived. George was also the immediate lessor of Khyber. Rockingham and Khyber are next door to each other in Nerano Road/Island View Avenue and as the avenue indicates look out to Dalkey Island. Both the Monckton and Herbert family descend from Wybrantz, Westenra and Fountaine.
Henry Monkton Herbert named his first child Henry Arthur, which is the name given to many generations of the above Herbert family. The name Augustus which appears in later documents of my gr.gr. grandfather might indicate Gustavus.
Too many coincidences to not indicate something but what! With gratitude, Lefayre.

[despair]

A Jane Westenra was the second wife of John Monckton,and therefore mother of the Mary Monckton above(and step mother to Robert Monckton?).

Regards
Roger

[despair]

When you say "George and Elizabeth" are you referring to HMH's children,as George Augustus.11th Earl's wife was an Elizabeth(died 1793).Another coincidence? Need sleep shortly,running out of dopamine!

Regards
Roger