Author Topic: Arthur Barlow Slebech  (Read 5536 times)

Offline despair

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Re: Arthur Barlow Slebech
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 26 December 15 21:52 GMT (UK) »
By clandestine marriages,do I assume these were Catholic?I would have to recheck the specific records you were hoping to link to in case these were Church of Ireland.


Regards
Roger

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Offline sarah

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Re: Arthur Barlow Slebech
« Reply #10 on: Monday 28 December 15 10:41 GMT (UK) »
Good Morning Roger,
Thank you for your swift reply, especially at this time of the year.
The marriages took place in Fleet Street London. John Barlow appears to have spent more time there than in Wales.
The first John Barlow to Jane Harrison 13 Jan 1696.
The second to Ann Owen 30 Nov 1701.

Dr. Mary White of Dublin Archives sent the our Counsellor Barlow was the son born to Arthur Barlow and Ann (Warren, from an Ancestry Public tree) in 1735.
The children of Arthur and Ann were Jane 1731, Mary 1732, Arthur 1735, John, Elee, and another John so perhaps the first John died young.

Some give Lewis born 1702 as the son of Jane Harrison Barlow, but the pedigree at the College of Arms gives him as son of Ann Owen Barlow.

I am surmising that maybe John and Jane Barlow had a son Arthur abt 1696 to 1701.

Ancestry gives among the sources quoted - Wales Annals and Antiquities vols. 1-11. I am yet to look them up.

The second marriage information comes from English and Wales Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8) 1588-1977 RG7_008.

I am trying to cull and reorganise 60 odd years of research, private and  40 years for the Women's Pioneer Society of Australasia, so am in a mess with paper work through a number of rooms
and cannot at the moment get to my Barlow records. From memory the weddings at Fleet prison and surrounds including the chapel at the Savoy Palace, (now Hotel), could be a little shady.
Even to the extent that the occasion could be predated for obvious reasons. Also wealthy people not wanting others to know their business would avail themselves  of the service. thus the naming of them as Clandestine marriages.

I do not know if religion comes into it. The Slebech Barlows were Roman Catholic but the Lawrenny Barlows were Protestant. The Counsellor's family appear to have been Church of Ireland. I have found I have many different religions in my background.


Posted on behalf of lefayre palmer who had sent the reply to me in error. :)
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Offline despair

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Re: Arthur Barlow Slebech
« Reply #11 on: Friday 01 January 16 20:30 GMT (UK) »
To be clear what you are saying:-
Is it this John Barlow who married Anne Owen of Orielton?

http://welshjournals.llgc.org.uk/browse/viewobject/llgc-id:1417505/get650

Are you further saying that the known children of this marriage do not include an Arthur,therefore  Arthur(possibly the father of the St John,Dublin family of the 1730/1740s) must have come from a prior marriage,and the John Barlow of the two marriages are the same person?

If this is the line I wonder if there is a connection with other earlier Barlows(or Barloes) also St John,Dublins follows(at www.irishgenealogy.ie)

James Barlow married Mary Challinor 1650 and though the mother is not specified the following baptisms have James as father
Rose(1653),Mary(1654/5),Elinor(1656),Olver(1656),Richard(1658),James(1662)

Theodore Barlow,no record of marriage,but children
Mary(1653),Margaret(1653),Thomas(1656)

William Barlow,wife Susanna,children
Mary(1702,possibly previous Mary died),James(1702?),William(1704,probably died),Thomas(?),John(1709,probably died),George(1710)

Regards
Roger

Offline despair

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Re: Arthur Barlow Slebech
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 02 January 16 08:36 GMT (UK) »
I've now seen your explanation on an Ancestry archive thread.I'm sure you are also aware that Orielton is near Monkton!

Regards
Roger

Offline despair

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Re: Arthur Barlow Slebech
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 03 January 16 19:27 GMT (UK) »
Have you seen this under William Barlow of Lawrenny(or are you the author?)

http://www.barlowgenealogy.com/wales/index.html

there is speculation that Arthur Barlow,son of Lewis(married to Mary Owen of Orielton!) "may have emigrated to Ireland".
Apparently,also he was the main beneficiary of his sister Lettice's will of 1690.
(Next part now deleted due to doubt over details)

Regards
Roger

Offline lefayre palmer

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Re: Arthur Barlow Slebech
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 03 January 16 22:49 GMT (UK) »
Dear Roger,
Once again thank you.
From memory this Arthur son of Lewis Barlow and Mary Owen, is he who was an explorer in America with or for Sir Walter Raleigh. to my knowledge it did not marry or have issue.

On Celtic Royal Genealogy it is claimed Arthur son of John Owen and Jane Harrison died BT 1720. If this is right it would preclude him from being our Arthur father of Counsellor Barlow. Arthur's first child is baptised/born 1731.

I cannot identify the entries at St. John's you cite, but the names seem more likely those belonging to the family of Sir James Barlow one time Lord Mayor of Dublin. It is said an ancestor of James is the William who came to Ireland in the 1600s.

Lady Mary Greer grand daughter of Jane Barlow's brother Thomas William, says she knows of no connection between the two families. She also states Jane married a man by the name of Herbert but she knows nothing of them. Another of Thomas' line states that they had nothing to do with Jane as she married beneath her status.

The other brother Arthur Craven on the other hand took out a lease in trust for his brother in law Henry Monkton Herbert, and his son Henry Arthur Augustus Herbert, of 25 acres at Tinahask, Arklow, Wicklow, in 1816. I feel Henry Monkton Herbert may have been injured or ill as he did not work the property but opened a school in  Arklow "so as to not burden his children."

On his wedding licence Henry is given as Henry Monckton Herbert, Dublin Esq. Monkton is given on the grave stone of his wife Jane and a list of bonds gives it as Moncton.

This family has been indeed leading me a merry dance and I am so grateful for you help in unravelling it.

Lefayre








Offline 89chan

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Re: Arthur Barlow Slebech
« Reply #15 on: Friday 29 January 16 22:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I wonder how you went in finding any reason for the inclusion of "Craven" in the Barlow name. My connection is through my ancester Jeanette Crowther who was born 1819 in England who married Arthur Craven Barlow. They lived in New York up until their deaths (1891 and 1852 respectively) and are both buried at Yonkers in New York.

I have recently come across a photograph which shows Jeanette visiting her nephew Frank Umbers (my great great grandfather) in Victoria, Australia which I think I can place at about 1880 or 1881 and led me to investigate the line a little further.

I found that Arthur Craven Barlow had siblings in Australia;

From the Argus Newspaper (a Melbourne Victoria newspaper)

BARLOW. On the 7th inst, at his residence, Park 
street, Parkville, James, sixth son of the late
Thomas William Barlow, for many years solicitor to   
Board of Ordnance in Ireland, late of the National
Bank in this city, aged 47 years. (7th November 1883)

BARLOW- LEE.  On the 25th ult., at St. Mark's 
Church, by the Rev. Robert B. Barlow, James
Barlow, son of the late Thomas William Barlow,
Esq., of Dublin, to Alice Florence, daughter of
Richard E. Lee, Esq., of Melbourne, civil engineer. (25th April 1867)

Arthur Craven Barlows parents were Thomas William Barlow and Anne Jeffares.

Ann had a sibling Bessie Jeffares who married Thomas Scott, an Anglican clergyman who immigrated to New Zealand. Bessie and Thomas had two sons, one of whom was:

 Andrew George Scott (1842-1880), bushranger, self-styled 'Captain Moonlite', was born at Rathfriland, County Down, Ireland, and baptized on 5 July 1842, son of Thomas Scott, Anglican clergyman, and his wife Bessie, née Jeffares.

I wonder if you have made this connection at all?

My ancestors Mr and Mrs Arthur Craven and Jeannette Barlow had two children; Arthur William Barlow and Laviniah Frances Barlow. They both lived in America and died respectively 1925 and 1926.
Yours Joanne Armstrong, Hobart, Australia



Offline lefayre palmer

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Re: Arthur Barlow Slebech
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 31 January 16 05:20 GMT (UK) »
Dear Joanne,

How exciting to find you and to know you live in Tasmania. I have been there several times to visit relatives of my husband. The Perkins family at Launceston and Gunns Plain.

Yes we are of the same family. Jane Barlow who married Henry Monkton Herbert was sister to Arthur Craven Barlow snr., and his twin brother Thomas William who named a son Arthur Craven from whom you descend.

Thomas William's family which includes Lady Mary Greer seem to have considered Jane married below her class and had nothing to do with them. On the other hand Arthur Craven snr., in 1816, leased land in Tinahask, Arklow, Ireland in trust for Heny Monkton and then to his son Henry Arthur Augustus my great great grand father.

A cousin, since deceased, in New Zealand had been in contact with some of the American Barlow/Crowther family and had received a copy of notes either from a diary or Bible which indicated the above about Henry and Jane in which it seems to indicate that the name Craven had come into the family much earlier. We have at least 2 generations in  Ireland whose wives names are unknown.

I have visited Captain Moonlite's grave at Gundagai.

Having just returned from a grandson's wedding, which was held at a beautiful country estate out of town, and necessitated staying overnight, I am rather tired. Would love to keep in contact and sort out the various information we might hold that would be the catalyst to solve our mysteries.

We believe not proven that we descend from Roger Barlow of Slebech. Recently I have found through my paternal grandfather I descend from his sister Elizabeth. The line from Jane Barlow is through my paternal grandfather.
Best wishes, Lefayre Palmer, Sydney, Australia

Offline 89chan

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Re: Arthur Barlow Slebech
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 31 January 16 21:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lefayre, thanks for the quick reply. My connection with the Barlow family is through the marriage of my 3x great grandmother's sister. She was Jeanette Crowther and married Arthur Craven Barlow.

Jeanette and Arthur went to America from England and lived in New York. The Crowther family had a carpet factory at West Farms (now part of the Bronx) and Jeanette's brother Richard managed the business there. Through Crowther contacts in England I have an image of Arthur Craven Barlow who died in 1852 and I also have a bad copy of a photograph taken of Jeanette Barlow around 1880.

That pic lead me to take a look at other Barlows in Victoria as beside Jeanette in the photo is a young girl of about 6 or eight and she does not fit anywhere in my Umbers family. Jeanette was the aunt of my great great grandfather Frank Umbers, (Umbers is my maiden name)

You are no doubt aware of the Barlows in Victoria; A couple of Arthur's brothers came to Victoria and now I am talking from memory without consulting files, an Emily Barlow was there too, married a policeman I think. I will have to dig out my files to properly check, but ignore me if you already have all this information and can recall it easily in order.

You didn't mention if you realised the connection of Captain Moonlites grave, or if you had just visited it as a tourist attraction? I bought a book about him, published in the 60's after I found the connection and there is still a fair bit of conjecture about his real story from what I can gather.

When trying to pinpoint the date of the photograph with Jeanette Barlow in it (and five of the six sons of my ancester Frank Umbers, plus the little girl and also Frank) I have tried to pinpoint the year of Jeanette's visit but could not find any likely Barlow's on the ships passenger lists.

I often scout around for random family info and the photograph I am talking about came from a chap in Greenwood, Indiana who is a descendant of Jeanette and Arhtur's. He has a diary of Jeanette's dated 1851 or so and kindly sent me the photo, although a really bad scanned copy. I have been unable to keep in touch with him so have no details of the diary which he found in a house on the death of his grandmother I believe.

I am happy to share what information I have; if you would prefer to email privately let me know, kind regards Joanne