Welsh Surnames in 1700-1800

[cire]

This is probably a very naive question. Someone suggested to me that in the 18th Century, daughters of a family had as their surname their mother's maiden name while the sons took their father's surname. Is this possible?

Eric

[Gadget]

Hi Eric

Not that I know of and I've gone back to 1600s and before  with some of my lines.

Under the Welsh patronymic system, they were described by their father's name - e.g. Gwen verch/ferch/merch John ( Gwen the daughter of John), etc. Sons would take their father's name also - John ap John, etc.


Gadget

[Gadget]

I always think that this is one of the better pieces on Welsh patronymics:

http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/helachau/patronymics.htm


Gadget

PS - just thinking about illegitimacy - not sure,  but would think that if father was not known/admitted the offspring would be son/daughter of mother's name/daughter of her father's name - need to check that up!

[Ayashi]

I did look up female forenames as surname before now and found them, I wondered if this might have stemmed from illegitimacy where the father wasn't known perhaps. I've got back reasonably far with all my Welsh lines and been somewhat disappointed that I've never got to any patronymics whatsoever! I feel like I should be on the cusp of it...

[Gadget]

It very often depends on which counties your ancestors came from, Ayashi. My first ones were found in Merionethshire. It's usual for the patronymics to last longer in the counties furthest from the border/least influenced by the English and in the North!

Gadget

[Gadget]

Here's a bit on illegitimacy - think it was what I said earlier :

An illegitimate child may have used the given or surname of the reputed father, the surname of the mother, or the given or surname of the family who raised the child.

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Wales_Names,_Personal

Added - Also, more generally:

As an interesting note, while some cultures exist that do use matronymics (names derived from one's mother), more often in a culture that uses patronymics, taking such a name is a sign of illegitimacy.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Patronymic?from=Main.Patronymic



Gadget

[Gadget]

Just found a thread where I asked about illegitimacy  - in 2008!

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=194000.msg2061777#msg2061777

Worth reading the whole thread!


Gadget

[Ayashi]

It very often depends on which counties your ancestors came from, Ayashi. My first ones were found in Merionethshire. It's usual for the patronymics to last longer in the counties furthest from the border/least influenced by the English and in the North!

Gadget

In my case, Carmarthenshire. I've got back to about the turn of the 19th Century mainly, with my Joneses back to 1758 or thereabouts... Got all the signs (Jones, Griffiths, Lewis, William...) but I think I've all run out and not made it back that far

[dmjones]

I have heard that daughters would use their mother's maiden name once their father had died. For example when giving their maiden name on a birth certificate. 
D M Jones