Author Topic: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick  (Read 25428 times)

Offline Phenmark

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Re: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 14 January 15 21:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi Annie,
I agree, that is weird.  I think it names Annie as spouse because the descendants in the tree are hers.  I entered the second marriage as a life fact, so I guess ancestry just treats that as it would any other event, such as residence, or census.
Baker: Dorset, England > Newfoundland > Massachusetts
Peddle: England > Newfoundland
White: Dorset, England > Newfoundland
Magner: Co. Cork, Ireland > Boston
Otto: Eisfeld, Thuringia, Germany > Boston
McDonald: Co. Carlow, Ireland > Fall River, Massachusetts
Thayer: Thornbury, Gloucestershire, England > Braintree, Massachusetts
Marks: Portugal > Massachusetts
Gilmore: Co. Westmeath, Ireland > Massachusetts
Farnum, Phillips: England > Barbados

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 14 January 15 21:42 GMT (UK) »
I think it names Annie as spouse because the descendants in the tree are hers.  I entered the second marriage as a life fact, so I guess ancestry just treats that as it would any other event, such as residence, or census.

Did you attach the marriage date to the correct wife? (Just incase you made an error)  :P

If so, you would think ancestry would be advanced enough to make sure correct details show for correct person ??? ::)

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Phenmark

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Re: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick
« Reply #29 on: Friday 16 January 15 03:36 GMT (UK) »
I thought I would summarize where I am now in view of the recent Carlow records available at rootsireland.  I will conclude with some questions that have kept coming to mind as I have assimilated everything.  I'd first like to thank all of you who offered their time and experience in helping me dig into my past. I am very grateful for your help.
I will try to summarize as clearly as possible what I have so far.

My family has always believed that my g-grandfather, John P. MacDonald (1876-1926), was of Scotland origin. However, when I started my research years ago, it quickly became clear that his father, Patrick MacDonald, was born in Ireland. Both the 1870 and'80 census of Fall River, Mass. indicated this.  As a matter of fact, his obituary states he was a prominent member of the AOH in Fall River!  Patrick was married to Anna (Anne, Annie) O'Brien, also of Ireland.  John P. was born in Fall River.  I obtained a copy of his baptism and it names Edward and Maria O'Brien as Godparents. An interesting note is the fact that John P. himself may have started the Scotland theory, as he puts his father, Patrick's place of birth as Scotland on his WWI draft reg.

Anyway, Annie died in 1881 and her parents were named as John and Catherine on the record of death. Both the 1880 & 1870 census have Catharine living with Patrick and Annie.  I found an obituary for Catharine O'Brien in 1889, which states the funeral was at her son, Michael's house in Fall River.  Both the 1870 & 1880 census have Michael O'Brien and family living on the same street as Patrick and Annie.

Patrick remarried in 1887 to Eliza O'Neil (widow of Patrick Cavanaugh).

I located a naturalization record for Patrick McDonald, laborer (his occupation on both censuses and city directories) on familysearch.  His birthplace was named as County Carlow.  There being several Patrick MacDonalds living in Fall River at the time, I systematically eliminated all other Naturalization records. No other laborers with that name from Fall River were naturalized during his lifetime. Then I found a nat. record for Michael O'Brien  from Fall River (mason), born in County Carlow.

Patrick died in 1890.  His parents were named as Thomas and Sarah.  These are also the names on both his marriage intention to Eliza Cavanaugh and the record of marriage to the same. That brings me to the newly issued Carlow church records.  The first thing I checked was a bap. record suggested by 2 listers on this board.  Sure enough, I found a Patt, b. 1839 to Thos. MacDonald and Sally Neil, Borris, Carlow.
I then found Anne Bryan, of John Bryan and Catherine Doyle.  I subsequently located several siblings of Patrick and Anne, all of the same parish.  Edward and Michael were 2 of her brothers. Incidentally, I found the marriage of an Edward O'Brien to Catherine Doyle in Fall River as well.  It is interesting that all these names are in close proximity to my ancestors in Fall River.

So, right now, I am optimistic that I have struck gold.  Here are some questions.

First, I have really tried to find other records of baptism on rootsireland by eliminating Carlow and doing a search with the same info, and come up with no results for Patrick, father Thomas, mother Sarah.  I have tried with just the father's name, and just the mother's, and any variants. The only results are the ones I found in Borris, Carlow.
With Annie O'Brien, I get more results across all counties.  However, I would imagine the one in Borris would be the likely one. As I stated, her parents and brothers all come up in that parish.   Please let me know your thoughts on the likelihood that I have come across something worth considering.
Was it common for emigrants to go to England before the States?  The reason I ask is because I simply cannot find a marriage for Patrick and Annie. However, the Michael O'Brien of Carlow living next to them in Fall River had a son born in England. The rest of his children were born in Mass.
Patrick and Annie's firstborn, Sarah, was listed as being born in Mar, 1870 Fall River on the census, and her later death cert.  But there is no civil birth record. I realize that is a common problem.  I've run into that a lot. I just wonder if she was born before Patrick and Annie emigrated.

Also, the name Bryan.  Is it synonymous with O'Brien?

Are Raheen and Rahana synonymous (addresses given).

Finally, any ideas on why my g-grandfather John P. MacDonald started naming his father's place of birth as Scotland?  I know anti-Irish sentiment was rampant in the 19th century, but it looks as though he started listing Scotland much later in life.


I apologize for the length of this post.  Any info warmly appreciated.

Thanks again
Steve
Baker: Dorset, England > Newfoundland > Massachusetts
Peddle: England > Newfoundland
White: Dorset, England > Newfoundland
Magner: Co. Cork, Ireland > Boston
Otto: Eisfeld, Thuringia, Germany > Boston
McDonald: Co. Carlow, Ireland > Fall River, Massachusetts
Thayer: Thornbury, Gloucestershire, England > Braintree, Massachusetts
Marks: Portugal > Massachusetts
Gilmore: Co. Westmeath, Ireland > Massachusetts
Farnum, Phillips: England > Barbados

Offline noland01

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Re: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick
« Reply #30 on: Friday 16 January 15 10:47 GMT (UK) »
Quick reply!!

The records you found would be worth considering as they seem to tally with other things you found.Very hard to say if definite though.
With Irish records sometimes not having a lot of detail plus gaps etc in records tracing people can sometimes be at times a matter of educated guesswork and not an exact science.
Esp. when the names involved are such common ones.

Rathanna and Raheen(darragh) are both townslands in Borris parish.

Have you tried Griffiths Valuation or even the census of 1901/1911 to see if any of the family remained in Ireland?

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

O Brien and Bryan and both pronounced the same and whilst O Brien would be much more common in Ireland would think that the Bryan spelling would be more used in the UK and USA.Thats just my opinion though.
McDonnell McDonald Gorman Cronley Colman Deegan Dunne Maher Dempsey Conlon Griffin Bergin Lalor Keys Bonham Brennan Hart(Laois) Nolan Byrne O Byrne Brady Mullen Hanaway Brennan Keeffe Reddy (Carlow)
O'Neill Doyle Donnelly Devlin  (Tyrone) Connor, Burbidge,McNally (Dublin)Hannon McCarthy (Tipperary)Healy Miley Treacy (Wicklow)Kelly (Kildare)


Offline healyjfch

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Re: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick
« Reply #31 on: Friday 16 January 15 12:22 GMT (UK) »
Some Irish emigrants did travel to England before embarking on long voyage to United States and  Australia. I do not know the exact reason for this, but perhaps cost was a factor.
Some of the Migrants got work in England awaiting Emigrant Ship.
I think that in Ireland that some people only had fare to get to England, then got work in England to save for the Emigrant Ship fare.
If mother was close to giving birth, she may have preferred to be on land for the birth.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick
« Reply #32 on: Friday 16 January 15 13:11 GMT (UK) »
... Patrick and Annie's firstborn, Sarah, was listed as being born in Mar, 1870 Fall River on the census, and her later death cert.  But there is no civil birth record. I realize that is a common problem.  I've run into that a lot. I just wonder if she was born before Patrick and Annie emigrated. ...

Have you checked the female McDonald Fall River birth in 1869? parents Patrick (laborer) and Ann both born Ireland
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FXZK-SPQ
more details on death record: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7L9-CM2

There's also a death for a child Catherine in 1861 so perhaps more than one couple Patrick McDonald/Ann O'Brien:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7P8-Y4Z
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Phenmark

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Re: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick
« Reply #33 on: Friday 16 January 15 14:37 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your replies!

Yes, I actually have looked at, and ruled out the female child born 1869, and yes, there was another Patrick McDonald and Anne O'Brien with a large family in Fall River at that time.  They were married in Lowell, Mass. in 1853.  I have been able to differentiate them from my family by his occupation (wool sorter) and address in the Fall River directories. They are also much older than mine.
 I attribute the child who was born 1869 ( and died-she was stillborn) and Catherine to the older Patrick and Anne because  the address given for both children on death cert match the address of wool sorter Patrick in that year's directory. There was another child, Ellen, born and died 1867 to parents of the same name, who are in my tentative folder, because the address given cannot be verified by city directory.

I checked the censuses and Griffith's but came up with nothing.
Baker: Dorset, England > Newfoundland > Massachusetts
Peddle: England > Newfoundland
White: Dorset, England > Newfoundland
Magner: Co. Cork, Ireland > Boston
Otto: Eisfeld, Thuringia, Germany > Boston
McDonald: Co. Carlow, Ireland > Fall River, Massachusetts
Thayer: Thornbury, Gloucestershire, England > Braintree, Massachusetts
Marks: Portugal > Massachusetts
Gilmore: Co. Westmeath, Ireland > Massachusetts
Farnum, Phillips: England > Barbados

Offline Phenmark

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Re: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 17 January 15 04:08 GMT (UK) »
I just noticed something. I have 11 children born to John O'Brien  & Catharine Doyle between the years 1837-1846, all in Rahana and Knockroe, Borris. I see Edward, born in 1837, 2 years before John and Catherine's marriage.  Why the earlier birth? Different couple? Any ideas welcome.
Thanks!
Baker: Dorset, England > Newfoundland > Massachusetts
Peddle: England > Newfoundland
White: Dorset, England > Newfoundland
Magner: Co. Cork, Ireland > Boston
Otto: Eisfeld, Thuringia, Germany > Boston
McDonald: Co. Carlow, Ireland > Fall River, Massachusetts
Thayer: Thornbury, Gloucestershire, England > Braintree, Massachusetts
Marks: Portugal > Massachusetts
Gilmore: Co. Westmeath, Ireland > Massachusetts
Farnum, Phillips: England > Barbados

Offline greeneyedgirl

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Re: Lookup of Thomas & Sarah McDonald: Parents of Patrick
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 20 January 15 11:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi Steve, I came across a couple of bits and think they may be people you are looking for.

Marriage:

23 February 1808
John Brien (cert) and Catharine Byrne
married in St Mullins

Birth:

19 Dec 1808
Biddy Brien
parents: John and Catharine Brien
born in St Mullins

The St Mullins records of this time period are either missing or illegible, so there may be other children born there during this time period. In my own research in the area (as I come from Byrne and (O') Brien stock, I have found that many times family can be found in both the St Mullins and Borris parish registers as they are very close as the crow flies. Catharine's family were probably from St Mullins and hence she married there. We could even be distant relations. Hope this helps, Kim