O'Toole family mystery

[dathai]

On the above 1911 census there is a Margaret Mary Kelly, Niece age 10
seems to have been born in Bray Feb 1901 to William Kelly,Railway Porter and Margaret Toole
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01967/1758487.pdf
parents marriage April 1900 Margaret dtr of Bartholemew,Ashford
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10346/5766614.pdf
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Bray_Town/Back_Street/1810850/
Bartholomew Kelly born Rosbercom 1904
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01813/1710030.pdf
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Rosbercon/Carnagh/690695/

Margaret and Christopher's age on the census is very offputting but there does not seem to be another Bartholemew and Mary Toole having children in that area

[Sparkle26]

Hi
Thought you might be interested in theses baptisms from rootsireland.com

PARENTS FOR ALL CHILDREN
CHARLES OTOOLE/ TOOLE     CATHERINE BYRNE      ROMAN CATHOLIC

ADDRESS FOR ALL CHILDREN
KILMANTIN HILL WICKLOW

Bartholmew D.O.B 5 April 1890  Baptism 9 April 1890
Witness 1 Joseph McCall     2 Maria Kennedy
MARRIED Esther Devlin Strand Street On 28 November 1914

Bridget D.O.B 18 Oct 1887  Baptism 19 Oct 1887
Witness 1 Henry O'Neill   2 Jane Byrne

Helena D.O.B 22 Aug 1886   Baptism 25 Aug 1886
Witness 1 Laurence Byrne   2 Catherine O Toole

Patrick & John    Twins    D.O.B 17 Sep 1898    Baptism 18 Sep 1898
Witness for Patrick 1 Matthew Farrel   2 Bridget Doyle
Witness for John  1 Nicholas Bennett   2 Catherine Kirwin

Joseph D.O.B 26 Jan 1893   Baptism 1 Feb 1893
Witness 1 Christopher Toole   2 Maria Byrne

Elena D.O.B 18 July 1895  Baptism 21 July 1895
Witness 1 Martin Manly   2 Catherine Byrne
Married James White 31 Aug 1913 Wicklow

Claire

[finians]

This looks like the same family but I'm a little confused and hope that some of you who are a lot more experienced than I am can help me figure this out.

Ellen Toole married Richard Manly in Rathmines, Dublin in 1871. Their children have the same family names as the Tooles in this original post. Ellens marriage certificate lists her father as Bartholomew Toole a carpenter. I also found a church record listing all the names in Latin. Richard is called Richardus, Ellen is called Elenora and her parents are listed as Bartholomew Toole and Maria Moran. Based on the death record she was born around 1847. I found a birth for Ellen Manly to Bartholomew Toole  (carpenter) and Mary Moran in August 1846.

Where I'm confused is that I also find birth records for children of Bartholomew and Mary Moran in the 1860's and 1870's.

They can't possibly be the same people. However Tooles and Manlys are both sponsors or witnesses over a couple of generations. I think Ellen who married Richard Manly is a separate generation but where is the connection?

Any help is very much appreciated... thank you for reading this.

Wendy

[hallmark]

Civil Reg Birth results for Otoole of Rathdrum Reg District; Marriage results for Otoole of Rathdrum ; Death results for Otoole of Rathdrum

LINK    http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p8e/

select Marriages or whatever or by decade

[hallmark]

One can change District as needed,  Dublin north, Dublin south etc...

[finians]

Thank you so much!!

I'll play around with this and see if I can figure out where I've gone wrong. There can't be two Bartholomew Tooles who married the same name 30 years apart.....I've taken a wrong turn somewhere.

Wendy

[hallmark]

You can change search criteria as needed...even put names in, tick marriage and use relevant year range if you want, leave District empty and search.

[aghadowey]

I'll play around with this and see if I can figure out where I've gone wrong. There can't be two Bartholomew Tooles who married the same name 30 years apart.....I've taken a wrong turn somewhere.

I don't think there were 2 couples named Bartholomew O'Toole & Mary Moran in the same area but not sure why you think this isn't one family.

Christopher (likely youngest child?) born Dec.1870- parents Bartle O'Toole & Mary Moran
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03312/2214056.pdf
Actual age only a few years off in 1901 and 1911. Here's his death in 1946-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1946/04610/4222641.pdf
If mother Mary's age is accurate then she was only about 47 when Christopher was born which is perfectly feasible.

Catherine is probably next to youngest child and her age also inaccurate in 1901 and 1911. Married Hugh McLoughlin in 1899 and he died Jan.1901 but had been ill for 2 years.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1899/10390/5783338.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1901/05737/4619407.pdf

more to follow...

[aghadowey]

Still checking and double-checking records but came across this 2007 obituary for a Bartholomew O'Toole of New St., Wicklow!
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/sonny-otoole-was-a-skilled-carpenter-27736413.html
Title- Sonny O'Toole was a skilled carpenter
"Born in New Street, Wicklow, the third youngest of 13 children, Bart O'Toole got his nickname 'Sonny' to avoid confusion with his father and namesake, the Wicklow town sergeant, who also ran the Royal Pavilion dance hall on the seafront and later the Mall Ballroom and neighbouring grocers."

Which led to this 2001 article on the Mall Ballroom which mentions Mrs. O'Toole and daughter-
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wicklowpeople/news/farewell-to-the-ballroom-of-romance-27759316.html