Can't find birth or marriage

[lisalucie]

Heywood - Yeah that's what Im thinking...that the Jeremiah in Abergavenny in 1871 is either the one who died that u mentioned or the one in the workhouse.

avm228 - Yeah I know from yesterdays threads that Julia's son Jeremiah (who was being traced yesterday) isn't the Jeremiah I'm after. The one I want is the one in Abergavenny in 1871 and married to Ellen.

Super confusing lol...just ignore yesterdays posts they are the wrong family of Kerbys x

[lisalucie]

Just seen Heywood's post which helps identify the 1871 we are looking at.

However, the Jeremiah Cerbey who is married to Ellen by 1871 is not the son of Julia.

Jeremiah Kirby son of Julia is unmarried and with his widowed mother in 1871.

This Jeremiah, son of Julia is the one from yesterday who is possibly in the Asylum and not of the right family.

The second Jeremiah- born Dowlais is, I would say, the son of John and Judy - another form of Julia.

All so confusing 

Thats it Heywood!! Glad I'm making some sense cus it is all very confusing.

Anyway Im thinking as his parents never married until 2 yeasr after his birth he would have been registered and/or married in his Moms name...Cleary?? x

[heywood]

Death- Jeremiah Kirby 33 yrs in 1879 makes his birth abt  1846 so quite possibly the one married to Ellen.

[avm228]

Given that the "right" Jeremiah's mother is Judy rather than Julia in the censuses, are you sure the Cleary marriage is right?

I see that in 1851 they say Jeremiah (4) and Catherine (2) were born in Wales, but in 1861 they say all their children other than "Enora" (Honora, b 1860 Abergavenny) were born in Ireland.

[lisalucie]

Heywood - thats what I was thinking.

avm228 - I assumed that that was a transcribers error in 61 as from the following censuses that Ive managed to trace the family (the ones I can find) their places of birth are all in Wales. (ie son Daniel Kirby was born in Wales and he states so on every other census excpt the 61 one) Thought it was just an example of putting ditto on the censuses and they just get carried away lol

[AMBLY]

Given that the "right" Jeremiah's mother is Judy rather than Julia in the censuses, are you sure the Cleary marriage is right?

In 1871 Judy is Julia 

In 1871:
27 Oten (or Otly) St, Llanally, Carmarthenshire
RG10 / Piece 5467 /Folio: 20 / Pg31
Head: John KERBY 46, dealer in Marine Stone, b Ireland
Wife: Julia KERBY 45, b Ireland
Dau: Catherine KERBY 21, unm, Domestic Servant, b Dowlais, Glamorgan
Son: Daniel KERBY 16, Mason's Labourer, b Dowlais, Glamorgan
Dau: Bridget KERBY 14, Scholar, b Pembroke, Pembrokeshire
Dau: Eliza KERBY 3,  b Abbergain, Monmouthshire
Grand-Dau: Agnes O'NAEL (?),  2mths, b Llanelly

Cheers
AMBLY

[lisalucie]

That's right AMBLY that's the ones I'm on about. It's co fusing cus both moms are Julie/julia/judy with a son jeremiah. That census you showed is my kirbys minus jeremiah who is in Abergavenny with his wife.

Can you see a marriage or birth reg for him at all? X

[heywood]

As I said in reply #8, Judy is another form of Julia - I have also a Julia Cleary - not this one but she was registered and baptised as Johanna! I have seen other Judy/ Julia in Irish records.
The Kirbys though are very confusing!
I think I suggested on other thread, that a marriage certificate would give you the father's name for the siblings and in this case now, Daniel's birth would clarify Julia/Judy's name.

[AMBLY]

Hi Lisa,

Ellen KIRBY, Jeremiah's 1871 wife - born abt 1848 Caldicot, Monmouthshire (in Chepstow district).

Ellen DUNDON, Jeremiah's cousin (Richard & Ellen's daughter), born abt 1847 Chepstow, Monmouthshire

Do you know what became of this Ellen 1861 to 1871?

Because in 1881 there is this:
Wykes Yard, Tudor Street, Abergavenny, (pretty sure this is Tudor Street, not Tudd as it looks like)?
RG11- Piece 5235 / Folio15 / Pg23
Head: Mary DONOVAN 63, Widow, Charwoman, b Kill Michael, Cork, Ireland
Lodger: Ellen DUNDON 32, unmarried, Washerwoman, b Calicott, Chepstow

Comparing to:
1871:  Snooks Yard, Tudor Street, Abergavenny, Monmouthshire
RG10- Piece 5309 /Folio 84/ Pg9
Head: Jeremiah CERBEY 24, General Labourer, b Dowlais, Glamorganshire
Wife: Ellen CERBEY 23, b Caldicot, Monmouthshire

Cheers
AMBLY