Author Topic: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart  (Read 4952 times)

Online auntie bertie

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Re: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 11 December 14 15:57 GMT (UK) »
I sent off for the 1863 Whitechapel one. That one was Phillip son of Michael and Sarah (so that ties in with 71 and 81 records)
There is no census that I have found with Phillip living with daddy Barnett and mummy Emma!
I also checked that Essex one wondering whether it could be in the right area but Billericay is a bit far out
 He also has a sister called Elizabeth (as he leaves her money in the will too).  She is the wife of an Abraham Barnett in 1918.  There is a 1911 census with Abraham and Elizabeth Barnett, and 3 children; but again I cannot find a married between Abraham Barnett and Elizabeth Hart so I have no idea of her DoB.    That is my tree you have found!
Beeson from Buckinghamshire
Freer from Leicestershire
Giles from Berkshire
Green from Birmingham
Gurney from Leicestershire,
Randall from Sussex
Robinson from Hinckley
Wadey from Sussex

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Offline Milliepede

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Re: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 11 December 14 16:03 GMT (UK) »
Yes they all seem to eliminate themselves don't they  :(

I saw the 1911 but the hints on ancestry lead back to an Elizabeth Isaacs.

Dec 1903 marriage London C includes the names
Abraham Barnett
Elizabeth Isaacs

Is that her or a different woman.



Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

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Offline Milliepede

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Re: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 11 December 14 16:11 GMT (UK) »
Just to throw the cat among the pigeons Elizabeth Isaacs parents are called Aaron and Esther and she names her children Aaron and Esther!

Can't be a coincidence can it  :-X

Will leave you with that thought whilst I get dinner  :)
Hinchliffe Huddersfield Wiltshire

Offline jennifer c

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Re: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 11 December 14 16:12 GMT (UK) »
I have seen people turning up on the census as visitors and also showing on their own address, could this be Phillip Hart visitor in 1901 census-

131 St.George Street St.George in the East  - Public House

Albert Hartmann 31 Lic. Vict. born Germany
Emilie 30
Phillip Hart 35 visitor born England

Jennifer
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online auntie bertie

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Re: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 11 December 14 16:28 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Jennifer but that isn't him. In 1901 he is under his alter-ego with wife and 4 daughters at his pub in Shoreditch.
Beeson from Buckinghamshire
Freer from Leicestershire
Giles from Berkshire
Green from Birmingham
Gurney from Leicestershire,
Randall from Sussex
Robinson from Hinckley
Wadey from Sussex

Offline jennifer c

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Re: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 11 December 14 16:32 GMT (UK) »
I have seen many people on the census twice. He may have been away that night and he was just put on his own schedule as head of the household.

Jennifer
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online auntie bertie

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Re: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 11 December 14 17:03 GMT (UK) »
Interesting - it could be him visiting another pub owning friend - and Phillip is spelt with 2 'll's which he was very insistent about!  Unfortunately it just has is place of birth as England!
Beeson from Buckinghamshire
Freer from Leicestershire
Giles from Berkshire
Green from Birmingham
Gurney from Leicestershire,
Randall from Sussex
Robinson from Hinckley
Wadey from Sussex

Offline Dundee

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Re: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 13 December 14 06:08 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps you might consider this family:

1861

St Botolph without, Aldgate
10 Little Somerset Street

Barnett HART, Head, Married, 65, Clothier, born Whitechapel, Middlesex
Catherine, Wife, Married, 50, born Bishopsgate, London
Emma, Daur, Unmarr, 23, Dressmaker, born Christchurch, Middlesex
Esther, Daur, Unmarr, 20, Tailoress, born Smithfield
Rebecca, Daur, Unmarr, 20, Tailoress, born Smithfield
Sarah, Daur, Unmarr, 18, Tailoress, born Christchurch, Middlesex

Class: RG 9; Piece: 210; Folio: 109; Page: 46

1871

Aldgate, London
10 Little Somerset Street

Hannah HART, Lodger, Unmarr, 31, Dressmaker, born Spitalfields
Esther HART, Sister, 30, Tailoress, born Spitalfields
Rebecca HART, Sister, 28, Tailoress, born Spitalfields
Sarah HART, Sister 26, Tailoress, born Spitalfields
Phillip HART, Brother, 9, born Spitalfields

Class: RG10; Piece: 413; Folio: 26; Page: 45

Perhaps I am being overly skeptical, but I don't believe that Phillip was a brother, but more likely a son of one of the girls. I wonder if Hannah and Emma the same person?  Emma doesn't appear in 1851.

This is an odd sort of family (of course  ;D ) - the next census back in 1851 notes that Esther and Rebecca are twins and it is easy enough to find their birth reg at East London in 1840.  However in 1871 they seem to have forgotten that they were twins.  Mother Catherine's age seems to fluctuate a bit as well.

Debra  :D

Offline Dundee

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Re: Phillip Hart son of Barnett Hart
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 13 December 14 06:12 GMT (UK) »
Can I also suggest that you ask a moderater to move this thread over to perhaps the London board where you might get more people looking?

Debra  :D