Author Topic: Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813  (Read 9719 times)

Offline Ali M

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Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813
« on: Thursday 11 December 14 21:27 GMT (UK) »

Hi there,
Phillip is my 3x gt grandfather.  I have found a record of his birth and several helpful family trees that confirm /suggest  his father is Phillip Keddie b. 1793 son of Robt Keddie and Janet nee Adamson in Wemyss but things are not as simple as they seem! 

Phillip is baptised in Monimail in 1813 the son of Phillip K and Mary Mc Kie.   This or another Phillip snr goes on to have children  with wife Mary Gibb in Cupar in the following years.   They do not have a son Phillip.   Ok I thought, either McKie is a misprint, an earlier marriage or an illegitimate child. 
BUT  Phillip and Mary Gibb's daughter Henrietta wrote a book about several generations of  the family (I have it on order)  and I've been told that there is no mention whatsoever of half brother Phillip.   

What seems to make it more likely that my Phillip 1813 is the son of Phillip of Cupar is his Christian name.  Phillip 1793's mother's mother was Margaret Philp   and he is the first Phillip in the Keddie family.   His brother Robert also has a son Phillip born in 1820 who is definitely not my Phillip.   
There are no others of that generation that I can find anywhere.

So , please,   any ideas how I might confirm once and for all my Phillip's paternity?

with many thanks, Alison in NZ
Shropshire :  Mullineux, Vaughan, Middle
Lancashire: Neale and variants, Edwards
Warwickshire: Lapworth
Devon: Hamblin(g), Cleverley, Jarvis
Oxfordshire: Castle, Haynes, Eden
Northants: Gibbins
Staffs:  Gilbert

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813
« Reply #1 on: Friday 12 December 14 00:09 GMT (UK) »
Quote
So , please,   any ideas how I might confirm once and for all my Phillip's paternity?

Did your Philip die in Scotland 1855 or later?  I can't find an 1851 or 1861 entry with an 1813 birthyear

If he did - then downloading a copy of his death cert from the Scotlands People website will give you his parents names and his mothers maiden name

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

1851 for Elie Fife

Philip Keddie 57 b Wemyss coal master
Mary Gibber Keddie   61 b Cupar
Ann Irish   24 servant b Kilconquhar
Elie ED 3 Page 12 Line 1

If he was the father of your Philip - he would have been about 19yrs old when he was born

1841 mis-transcribed as Kidder

Philip Keddie   45 farmer
Mary  45
Margaret  22
Mary  20
Secella?? 20
Janet  15
Henrietta   14
Mary Gray   20
Isabel Harris   20
Kilconquhar ED 5 Page 4 Line 400
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Ali M

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Re: Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813
« Reply #2 on: Friday 12 December 14 00:48 GMT (UK) »
thank you for this information - yes the man in the census is Philip snr - the one I and other Keddie relatives think is my Philip's father. (Secella is Isabella)
 My Philip  moved to England  and was in Hertfordshire by 1834 when he married Maria Pym.  He remained in England, travelling around quite a bit as he was a railways plate -layer.  In the 1851 census he gives Glasgow as his birth place.  No luck at all finding a Philip K. born in Glasgow.  I have wondered, if he was illegitimate, whether he was shipped off to Glasgow to wider family or possibly an institution. 

Alison
Shropshire :  Mullineux, Vaughan, Middle
Lancashire: Neale and variants, Edwards
Warwickshire: Lapworth
Devon: Hamblin(g), Cleverley, Jarvis
Oxfordshire: Castle, Haynes, Eden
Northants: Gibbins
Staffs:  Gilbert

Offline whiteout7

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Re: Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 16 December 14 06:21 GMT (UK) »
Ancestry says that Phillip Keddie died 15 JAN 1871 in Oswestry, Shropshire, England.

Also that he marries Maria PYM in 19 JUL 1834 in London, Middlesex, England.

As painful as it is I would probably buy both those certificates.
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)


Offline Ali M

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Re: Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 16 December 14 06:28 GMT (UK) »
I'd love to buy his marriage certificate especially but didn't think I could pre 1837

kind regards, Alison
Shropshire :  Mullineux, Vaughan, Middle
Lancashire: Neale and variants, Edwards
Warwickshire: Lapworth
Devon: Hamblin(g), Cleverley, Jarvis
Oxfordshire: Castle, Haynes, Eden
Northants: Gibbins
Staffs:  Gilbert

Offline CaroleW

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Re: Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 16 December 14 16:11 GMT (UK) »
You are correct - marriage certificates were only introduced from 1.7.1837.  Prior to then - marriage entries were in parish registers and fathers names were not shown

There is very little useful info on a death cert - certainly no parental names on English death certs for that period.

The marriage was at St Luke in Chelsea.  Philip Keddie bachelor shown as "of this parish" which only means he lived there long enough to satisfy the residence qualification for marrying there

Maria was also shown as of this parish and was a spinster.

Philip signed the register but Maria made her mark

Witnesses were Elizabeth Pym (made her mark) and a  signature which may possibly be Binns
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Ali M

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Re: Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 16 December 14 17:20 GMT (UK) »
thank you for this - I think Elizabeth was Maria's mother.  (her family is proving slightly easier to verify!)
kind regards, Alison
Shropshire :  Mullineux, Vaughan, Middle
Lancashire: Neale and variants, Edwards
Warwickshire: Lapworth
Devon: Hamblin(g), Cleverley, Jarvis
Oxfordshire: Castle, Haynes, Eden
Northants: Gibbins
Staffs:  Gilbert

Offline hdw

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Re: Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 14 February 15 21:29 GMT (UK) »
I just got my copy of the latest Fife Family History Society journal (Winter 2014) today and there is an article entitled "A Keddie Family in Wemyss", which is obviously your family. Are you the author? No author's name is given in the Contents list.

Harry

Offline Ali M

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Re: Phillip Keddie born Monimail 1813
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 15 February 15 23:32 GMT (UK) »
Hello Harry,
no I'm not the author but would be most interested to see/access the article.  I'm in New Zealand and so my research is done at a distance.    many thanks for getting in touch.   Alison
Shropshire :  Mullineux, Vaughan, Middle
Lancashire: Neale and variants, Edwards
Warwickshire: Lapworth
Devon: Hamblin(g), Cleverley, Jarvis
Oxfordshire: Castle, Haynes, Eden
Northants: Gibbins
Staffs:  Gilbert