Josette Finlay

[KNormoyle]

Merry Christmas everyone.

I have another roadblock in my research that I'm hoping to find help on.  This is what I know and have documents proving:

My 5x g grandmother was named Josette Pion, her maiden name was Josette dit Finlay.  This is documented on her marriage to Louis Pion in Quebec.  This is the only record I have of her. 

Louis Pion my 5 x g grandfather on the marriage certificate is listed as a voyageur.

Louis Pion/Peone HBC record show him stationed at Spokane House in Washington and retiring to Canada.

These are the only records I have of these two, other than their names on my 4 x g grandmother's baptism and marriage records.

Now I also have some historical accounts.  The Finlay name is quite famous in the Spokane area.  There are numerous accounts of Jacques Raphael Finlay a Metis fur trader and him having a daughter Josette.

I also have a Jacques Finlay family tree drawn in 1852 (certified to be the penmanship of Father Jean Pierre DeSmet by the Jesuit MO. PROV. ARCHIVES in St. louis who documented many of the native families in the western US).  His tree shows Josette marrying Pion/Peone and going to Canada.

Now here's my issue; I am trying to apply for my Metis status and the MNO would like more documentation linking Josette to Jacques Finlay.  Being born in the country I am sure there is no documentation.

However, if she had a church wedding to Louis Pion when they arrived in Montreal, wouldn't she need to have been baptized?  If this document exists, it may list her parents names.  If this happened, it would have been around 1825 Montréal (Basilique Notre-Dame).

I can't find it, but I know some of you have some secret magic I was hoping you could use.

Thank you in advance,

~Keith

[DonM]

NAME:   Josette Finlay
SPOUSE:   Louis Pion
EVENT:   Mariage (Marriage)
MARRIAGE YEAR:   1825
MARRIAGE LOCATION:   Montréal, Québec (Quebec)
PLACE OF WORSHIP OR INSTITUTION:   Basilique Notre-Dame

You can see the original in the Drouin Collection on Ancestry.

Don

[polarbear]

Hello Keith.

I have had a look through the records for Notre Dame Basilica between the baptisms of the children in Nov 1824 and the marriage in 1825 and there is no apparent sign of a baptism for Josette. I would have expected to see her either baptized with the children or just prior to her marriage. I will leave it to you to scan through the pages prior to the baptisms in case there is something there. I suspect, however, that if there is a connection to the Jesuits, she may have been baptized at an earlier age by a Jesuit priest.

I think the marriage record is the first Roman Catholic one I have ever seen that didn't give the parents of the bride who wasn't a widow. A real shame when there is so much riding on that particular info.

You might consider inquiring whether the MNO would accept DNA testing for native American roots along with all the evidence you have compiled. You would, of course, have to have your DNA tested and not everyone is comfortable with this. There is a board dedicated  to DNA testing on RootsChat that should have more info about this type of thing.

Also, there is a James Finlay who signs as a witness to the marriage. Have you tried tracing him to see if you can connect any dots that way?

PB

[KNormoyle]

Hi PB,

James Finlay is Jacques brother who was apparently a prominent figure in Quebec.   I'm hoping that if I can find a document that links him to Jacco definitively I can use the signature as a comparison.

I think I may need to follow the children's births by the Columbia River and see if I can find documentation of her there.  I believe that her parents on the baptism and her burial records are not mentioned to avoid racial prosecution. The geography certainly gives me certainty but the MNO wants to follow the rule of two.  So I need two documents as proof.  Just harder to find considering she was born in the woods.   

[Jacquie in Canada]

Josette's birth could be listed under another surname. When "dit" names come into play it can cause a few difficulties.

Jacquie

[KNormoyle]

My feeling is that her birth is not really officially documented at all.  She was Native born in an unsettled part of the country.  Her Dit name is due to that fact in my belief. 

[polarbear]

Hi again.

I have found a baptism that MAY be the one you are looking for. Unfortunately, it is not going to help you though.

From the Drouin Collection
At Basilique Notre-Dame

07 Feb 1825

Josephte Inc (Inc = Inconnu, as in no last name) aged about 24 years
Born a Fort des Prairies in the North West to unknown parents
Parrain Sieur Charles Ambroise Laberge, Marraine Dame Rose Franchere

This baptism is the day before the marriage of Jossette and Louis if I remember correctly. And Josette was later buried as Josephte. Is this her? No way to know for sure without the names of parents, but I suspect it is her given the age and place of birth.

The Pion family seems to be well-connected to people who are well-educated, judging by the fact the sponsors of the children and the marriage witnesses can apparently write quite well.

Married women do not normally have parents listed on a death record so that would be why there were none for Josette/Josephte's burial.

There is another tree on *A* related to Jacques that has a five page story attached. Have you seen it? I haven't read it all but you may find a clue in it? Plus other related records?

Also, I noted that on the image of the tree is an Isabella, who I presume would be a sibling of Josette, who was said to have gone to Canada too? Have you tried to trace her?

Does James Finlay appear as a sponsor for any of Josette's post-marriage children?

PB

[KNormoyle]

Jacques Finlay is pretty well documented which is why I was surprised the MNO wants more information.  I sent them pages and pages from the Glenbow Archives in Manitoba. 

Here's where it gets even harder, Josette had 20 siblings and it's estimated that there are now 1000's of Finlay descendants in the west.  Jocko is accredited by many to be the first settler of the west.  I have come into contacted with the foremost expert in all thinks Jocko Finlay and my branch of the tree is the least known.  I had information that he did not.  He's satisfied with what I provided with him but he's in Washington so it doesn't help me in Ontario.

The baptism you found is probably her, but for some reason, it's another document that vague and incomplete.  I assume it's all to avoid prejudice. 

[polarbear]

I have been reading some of the info about Jacques with great interest. He certainly had quite the number of children and descendents.

I found your comments about avoiding prejudice quite interesting and tend to agree, especially given the social circle Louis seems to be connected with. If I remember correctly, the old French records usually give a first name and the designation Indien for natives.

You are faced with quite a challenge. I hope you will ultimately be successful.

Regards
Polarbear