Author Topic: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial  (Read 15412 times)

Offline sft456

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 757
    • View Profile
Re: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 13 January 15 00:03 GMT (UK) »
Thank you again for your help. I will continue tomorrow, there is so much to take in

Jane

Offline cando

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,332
    • View Profile
Re: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 13 January 15 00:42 GMT (UK) »
Quote
How can I obtain a dd/mm//yyyy date for their marriage, location etc? If it is possible to buy a certificate what details will it show? I notice also that many of the dates are just years. We appear to have much more information in England. Is it possible to obtain more details?

None of the online marriage indexes for England give place of birth of bride and groom.

Quote
Marriage
HAINES George Born Sussex
CARMAN Susannah  Born London
1887  Reg#1578
Cando

I am surprised that you have taken such an interest in George's second wife as they didn't have any children, therefore no descendants.

The Victorian certificates contain excellent information.

Births 
 Date and place of birth;
 Name of child and whether present or not;
 Name of parents (including mother's maiden name);
 Occupation of parents;
 Ages and birthplace of parents;
 Date and place of marriage of parents;
 Previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
 Signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;
 Names of witnesses;
 Date and place of registration.
 
Deaths
 Date and place of death;
 Name and surname;
 Occupation of the deceased;
 Sex and age;
 Cause of death,
 Duration of illness,
 Medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw deceased;
 Name and surname of parents (if known) including mother's maiden surname,
 Signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; 
 Signature of deputy registrar, date and where registered,
 When and where buried,
 Undertaker whom certified;
 Name and religion of Minister, or names of witnesses of burial;
 Place of birth of the deceased and how long he or she resided in the Australian colonies or States (stating which),
 Name of spouse,
 Place of marriage,
 Age at marriage;
 Names and ages of children of the deceased.
 
Marriages
 Date and place of marriage;
 Name and surnames;
 Conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower,
 Stating date of decease of former wife or husband;
 Children by each former marriage;
 Birthplace;
 Occupation;
 Age;
 Residence (present and usual);
 Parent's names of each party (including mother's maiden name) and occupation of father;
 Signatures of the parties and witnesses;
 Signature of Minister.
 Prior to 1963 the date of termination of previous marriages of the parties is also shown.

You can purchase online [AUD21] and immediately download
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/family+history+certificates/purchase+an+uncertified+image

Cando

Edit.  I am assuming that Judith found an image of a certificate online attached to a family tree. :)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,332
    • View Profile
Re: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 13 January 15 01:14 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Kate Elizabeth Haines (?)
Emigrated to Australia during 1860s
Portsea, Isle of Wight, Hants (1859 - ?)
m?
Philip Ofas (?)
?
(? - ?)
(son of ?
(6 children)

Portsea is not on the Isle of Wight. 
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HAM/Portsea/

Kate was born at Ryde on Isle of Wight according to the 1861 Census.
Births Dec 1859
HAINES Kate Elizabeth  I.Wight  2b/494

Kate HAINES/HAINS who married Philip Harris OPAS not OFAS is not your Kate Elizabeth HAINES.  Kate was the dau of Joseph HAINS and Julia DELEVANTE.  She is buried with other members of the OPAS family in the Jewish Section of the Brighton cemetery.   She was born 1854 in London, Middlesex.

Births Jun 1854 
HAINS Catherine    Whitechapel 1c/347

Marriage
HAINES Kate  Born London
OPAS Philip   Born Poland   later records show his names to he Philip Harris
1881  Reg# 2786

Death
OPAS Kate
Father Joseph HAINS and Julia DEVELANTE
At Balaclava  1940 85 years    Reg#11489

And marriage of her parents
Marriages Jun 1853
HAINS Joseph St Luke  1b/744
DELEVANTEJulia   St Luke 1b/   744

Her father's death in South Australia.   

The South Australian Register  1893
HAINS.— On the 8th February, suddenly, at his residence, Dale-street, Port Adelaide, Joseph Hains. sen., aged 67, beloved father of Mrs. Alfred Myers, Adelaide, and Mrs. P. Opas and Mrs. L. Cober, Melbourne. Sydney and Melbourne papers please copy.


Cando

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,332
    • View Profile
Re: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 13 January 15 01:29 GMT (UK) »
Quote
David Haines (?)

Bristol (1851 - ?)
m?
(he may not be their child)

I think you are right.  He doesn't belong to this family.

Marriages Sep 1851   
HAINES George  Bristol 11/131
GUTTERIDGE Rebecca Ellen  Bristol 11/131

There is no birth registered in the Bristol registration district for a David HAINES in 1851. You mention that Rebecca Francis was born and died at Exeter in 1852 so Frederick George appears to be their second child born in Sep qtr 1853.

Births Sep 1852 
HAINES    Rebecca Frances  Exeter    5b/77
Deaths Dec 1852 
HAINES Rebecca Frances Exeter 5b/68

Births Sep 1853 
HAINES Frederick George Exeter 5b/81     

1861 Census
Living at Clapham, Surrey
HAINES George Head M 39 years  Clerk S W Railway  Born Kidford, Sussex
HAINES Rebecca  Wife M 29 years  Born Carmenthan, South Wales
HAINES Frederick G  Son  7 years  Scholar  Born Exeter, Devon
HAINES Ellen  Dau  5 years  Born Portsmouth, Hampshire
HAINES Lucy  Dau  3 Born Ryde  IOW
HAINES Harry  Son 2  Born  Ryde, IOW
HAINES Kate  Dau  1  Born Ryde, IOW

Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline sft456

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 757
    • View Profile
Re: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 13 January 15 20:36 GMT (UK) »
Very many thanks again for all your info.

I am struggling to know where to start. A few questions arise however

1 George Frederick Haines d aged 74 7\3\1925 W Maitland - but he could only have been 71 as he was b Sep qtr 1853 Exeter

2 Laurence George E (Epthorp, after his mother's mother's maiden name) was son of George Frederick not Fredk Paul (who d aged 3)

3 I have found a Rita Stella Guttridge b 1892 Australia Birth Index (Victoria 824) as a dau of Fredk G and Alice (nee Booth)

4 There is an FT for John Edward Williamson on A........y if I could read it

The original Australian section of the HAINES Family Tree I posted was researched by me with the help of A........y. and the Australian Electoral Rolls (for further members of the Family) - Christopher Hurst HAINES family and grand children upto 1980. and finally Christopher William HAINES (Hirsty's gson) who d 10/4/2014 Wonthaggi

The ggrandaughter of Lucy Gough HAINES (dau of George who d 1908) who m Samuel Morgan 1880, contacted me and sent me some of her family (as far as Catherine Ellen Morgan b 1861, but no further) She has no further details

I also contacted Wonthaggi Inc who told me there were members of the HAINES family there ie Christopher William (above) et al but I have received no info despite spending 6 moths waiting. I gave up in frustration. I was hoping to actually contact a member of the current family

Jane

Offline sft456

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 757
    • View Profile
Re: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 13 January 15 23:00 GMT (UK) »
Have you had a look in Trove?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y
Type in Haines and tick the Victoria box (for now) And start looking. I found 174,000 references to Haines in Victorian newspapers, you may need to specify dates to narrow the search a little.
For your Ballarat Haines Trove only has the Ballarat Courier digitised for the WW1 years, The Ballarat Star is completely digitised but didn't last long. After you have waded through that 174,000 then have a look at the newspapers in the rest of Australia, often choice juicy bits of news were reported in newspapers in very distant places. Gosssip would be reported in the Melbourne Argus, News of mine disasters in Victoria were often reported in other mining towns, Kalgoorlie and Broken Hill for example. You can find things that never gets passed down in family legends.

Thanks for this

Not the newspapers, but on A........y - 2 references, one for Christopher William HAINES d 2014 Obit. Collection and one for Mark Raymond Haines d 15/10/2013 (his son?) Australia & New Zealand Obit. Collection, if I could see

Jane

Offline sft456

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 757
    • View Profile
Re: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 13 January 15 23:03 GMT (UK) »
Quote
There are many further generations living in the Ballarat area,

Only two HAINES listings for the Ballarat Greater area
http://www.whitepages.com.au/?entryType=R#

Cando

Presumably, this is Rae Ruth HAINES' address in Wonthaggi and tel no?

Jane

Offline cando

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,332
    • View Profile
Re: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 13 January 15 23:09 GMT (UK) »
Quote
one for Christopher William HAINES d 2014 Obit.
Jane
Quote
We do know that there are still members of the family living in Wonthaggi 150 years on, one of whom died in 2014

http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/notice/35082095/view?random=1420365290827
Cando

Jane you don't appear to have read the above link previously posted.

Cremated at Springvale Botanical Cemetery
HAINES Christopher William  86 years
The cremated remains have been collected
Date of Birth 25 January 1928
Date of Death 10 April 2014
Date of Service 15 April 2014
Religion or Cultural Preference Anglican
Funeral Director Handley & Anderson Funeral Directors

Quote
Presumably, this is Rae Ruth HAINES' address in Wonthaggi and tel no?
Jane
Sorry I have no way of knowing whose telephone number it is.

Quote
1 George Frederick Haines d aged 74 7\3\1925 W Maitland - but he could only have been 71 as he was b Sep qtr 1853 Exeter
Jane

This is the information to which you refer....

Quote
Possible death for Alice in NSW
18648/1921
HAINES Alice
Father William  Mother Mary A
District St Leonards

and Frederick George....there are errors on the indexes.

4211/1925     
HAINES Frederick C     
Father George  Mother GUTTERIDGE
District West Maitland

Burial record for Frederick George HAINES
http://austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=1375712

and their son

3136/1963     
HAINES Lawrence George E
Father Frederick Paul  Mother Alice
District Ashfield
Cando

I can only post the information as I find it.
Information on any bdm or cemetery record is only as good as the knowledge of the informant.  It is your person of interest....the surname detailed albeit slightly incorrect, for his mother GUTTERIDGE was fortunate.  Usually only the given name of the mother is posted and that was obviously not known by the informant.

Frederick George's wife, Alice, pre-deceased him so you would need to purchase a transcription of his death certificate to validate the research.  At the moment the price is AUD$20.  The transcription is emailed to you.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html#transcription

The same comment applies to the death information for their son Lawrence.

I treat all online trees with great caution.  I know some of your information has been sourced from an online tree by the following incorrect spelling and incorrect place of burial.
Quote
(d at Warrenheih St, Buninyong, Victoria, Australia)
(bur 23/2/1908 at Caringham Cemetery)
Jane

I would expect you to find some of the information yourself :) I will mention that my resources are not on one CD.  I have to load numerous discs to find information about a family in Victoria and that is time consuming.  This is a difficult thread because there is more than request for the same family.  This birth is on a different disc to the earlier ones. 

Birth
HAINES Reta Stella Gutridge
Father Frederick George  Mother Alice BOOTH
At Ballarat East  1892  Reg#824

When I started my family research in Victoria I purchased pages of all the surname entries from the Vic BDM website with my surname of interest and each page cost at that time around 99 cents. Fortunately my maiden name is not a commonly occurring one ;)  I have only purchased images of certificates if I wanted to know the causes of death.  Not a large family so not an expensive exercise.  I am definitely not suggesting you purchase all the HAINES names!!  A number of us have the resources to help you.  Many libraries subscribe to the Library Edition of Ancestry.com.   Perhaps you could enquire at your local library.
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/search+your+family+history/

What do else you want to know about John Edward WILLIAMSON?

Cheers :)
Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,332
    • View Profile
Re: Haines family lived in Ballarat from c1865 to the present day looking for burial
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 13 January 15 23:23 GMT (UK) »
Quote
one for Mark Raymond Haines d 15/10/2013 (his son?)
Jane

It breaches the terms of use of the subscribers to do specific lookups on Ancestry. 

There are other sources.
http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/notice/3309054/view?random=1421191156938
http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/notice/3316051/view?random=1421191460930

Have you had a browse through all the links on the Resources board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/

Please don't post any requests there though :) 

Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk