Marion Woodburn - b. Ayr, Scotland, possibly 1819

[pollyhow]

Hi Looby

How interesting that you live in what was the Loudoun area. I live in New Zealand – my ancestors braved the journey to the Antipodes in one of those rickety old sailing ships.

Marion had two husbands. The first, Thomas McCulloch, died shortly after they immigrated to Australia in July 1848 (he drowned while working on a bridge being built across the Yarra River, Melbourne). Her second husband was my ancestor, Andrew McEwin (Scottish born). Marion and Andrew moved to New Zealand in the mid-1850s. Marion’s children were Mary McCulloch, Thomas McCulloch, James McEwin, Andrew McEwin (died in infancy), John Woodburn McEwin, Margaret Esther McEwin, George Irving McEwin and Martha McEwin. Andrew McEwin came from a large family of 10 sons and one daughter, and their names included James, John, Margaret and George, but I can't account for the names "Irving" or "Martha."

That was a good thought of yours to look for the family the Thomas McCulloch possibility lived with. I wonder when they returned to Kilmarnock? Thomas and Marion's daughter Mary was born about 1843. The McCulloch family passenger record on the “Mahomed Shah” (1848) shows Thomas, aged 28, labourer; Marion (misspelled “Mary Anne”), aged 27, wife; Mary, aged 5, daughter. The native place for all was Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, Scotland; they were Presbyterian; Thomas and “Mary Anne” could read and write, and Mary could read.

Be good to find a birth record for Mary but doesn’t seem to be one there. Wonder why they didn’t marry around the time she was born.

Polly

[loobylooayr]

Hi Polly,

What a shame about poor old Thomas....but of course if Marion hadn't married Andrew.....no you! 
I find Mary's children's names interesting. You probably know of the Scottish tradition of naming children which lasted over many years ( not everyone did it but it can be a  guide to grandparents).
First son - after father's father.                                First daughter - after mother's mother
Second son - after mother's father.                          Second daughter - after father's mother
Third son - after father                                            Third daughter  - after mother

Of course the third child could be called something else if the parents name matched a grandparents!  Names of children who died were often reused with the next birth depending on baby's sex.

Now Mary McCulloch being born circa 1843 and the couple marrying 1845 was not as unusual for the time as you might think!  She might not even be Thomas's child  but could have been given his name after the couple's marriage. Unfortunately it was not compulsory till 1855 to register BMDs . Birth's prior to this date are birth/baptism records from Old Parish Records....and yes not all records have survived. But equally not everyone had their child baptised and therefore recorded as there was a cost. There is a chance that Marion was pulled up before the Kirk Session for having a child out of wedlock - but those records are not online. Look under Established Church- Kirk Session records in this link - https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Kilmarnock,_Ayr,_Scotland.
Kirk Session records are not the easiest to search and read.

Looby

[loobylooayr]

Marion had two husbands. The first, Thomas McCulloch, died shortly after they immigrated to Australia in July 1848 (he drowned while working on a bridge being built across the Yarra River, Melbourne). Her second husband was my ancestor, Andrew McEwin (Scottish born). Marion and Andrew moved to New Zealand in the mid-1850s. Marion’s children were Mary McCulloch, Thomas McCulloch, James McEwin, Andrew McEwin (died in infancy), John Woodburn McEwin, Margaret Esther McEwin, George Irving McEwin and Martha McEwin. Andrew McEwin came from a large family of 10 sons and one daughter, and their names included James, John, Margaret and George, but I can't account for the names "Irving" or "Martha."

Split my loooong reply in two.
Back to Marion's children.
First daughter could have been called after her mother - Mary ??
First son could have been called after Thomas McCulloch's father - Thomas??
First son with Andrew McEwin - James . Is that Andrew's father's name?
Second son - Andrew - after father
Third son John Woodburn McEwan - now I find that use of Woodburn as a middle name for this son when she hasn't used it before interesting and would strengthen my belief that Marion's father was a John Woodburn.
First daughter with Andrew McEwin - Margaret Esther - Was Andrew's mother Margaret?
Fourth son George Irving McEwin  - McEwin family forename.
Second daughter Martha McEwan - no connection ...yet!
Although the Woodburn family in Glasgow and with Ayrshire origins have a Mother Martha and a son George

Looby

[pollyhow]

Hi Looby

So true about poor old Thomas. Funny how our very existence depends on things happening by chance.

I had wondered about the father of Mary – whether it was Thomas or not. I did click on that website you posted but got a bit lost in there. But I somehow don’t feel too confident that I will find a record for Mary.

Just seen your latest posting. Interesting what you said about Scottish tradition of naming children. Thanks for that. Yes, looks like first daughter was named after Marion's mother Mary. First son possibly named after Thomas McCulloch’s father. James (my great-grandfather) was not named after his father’s father, but Andrew did have a brother called James (Andrew’s father’s name was John). Yes, Andrew’s second son got his name. The third son got Andrew’s father’s (and brother’s) name of John plus the second Christian name “Woodburn”. But, of course, John was probably also named after Marion’s father, whose name we think is John. The next child was Margaret Hester, and yes, she did get her father’s mother’s names of Margaret Esther (Esther was sometimes spelt “Hester”). Fourth son was George Irving – George was the name of one of Andrew’s brothers.

I see what you say about the John Woodburn/Martha Smith partnership. Their marriage record shows they married on 4 Jan 1817 in Loudoun Parish. There are birth records for three children: Janet born 18 May 1817, Alexander born 14 Mar 1819 and William born 24 Feb 1822 (all born in Loudoun). Can’t see birth records for children George or Mary (whose names came up in the census records). Don’t think they had a Marion, unless she was born after 1822 or before they married in Jan 1817. But there could be some connection there. Martha is not such a common name and Marion has felt led to use it when she named her last child.

Polly

[pollyhow]

Hi again Looby

I have looked again at the census results for the Woodburns. In the 1851 census for Jessie Woodburn aged 70 the second listing is for Agnes Woodburn, granddaughter, aged 5 and it says she was born “Overseas – British – East Indies.” Another 1851 census record shows a Janet Caldwell aged 45. Also listed is Willie C Woodburn, visitor aged 38. The third listing in that record is for John Woodburn, visitor, aged 7, born “Overseas – British – East Indies.”

Seems the two children were born at the same place so are probably siblings, and Jessie Woodburn aged 70 was their grandmother. I see the birth record from FamilySearch shows their father was David Woodburn. After much research I found Jessie Woodburn was born Janet Caldwell in 1781 and married a David Woodburn. I found four birth records for their children - Ann Woodburn (born 1798), Agnes Woodburn (born 1801), John Woodburn (born 1802) and David Woodburn (born 1805). It would have been ideal if the son John Woodburn was the same John Woodburn who married Mary Brown in June 1818 and had the daughter Marion– then I could say that Marion Woodburn was the granddaughter of this Janet “Jessie” Woodburn. But unfortunately John Woodburn, son of Janet Caldwell and David Woodburn, was born in April 1802 so that would have made him only 16 if he had been the one who married Mary Brown in June 1818. Could be possible, I guess, but not likely.

I searched for a death record for this John Woodburn, son of David and “Jessie” Woodburn, born 1802, and thought I had found one. There was a John Woodburn who died in 1873 was aged 71. When I saw the image I found he was (what looked like - it was hard to read) a “muslin weaver,” he was widower of Agnes Woodburn, his father was William Woodburn and his mother was Margaret Woodburn (maiden surname Borland). I was disappointed because he was not the son of David Woodburn and Janet Caldwell. It did look like this John Woodburn had married a woman of the same surname and I thought maybe this Agnes Woodburn (his wife) was the daughter David and “Jessie” had in 1901. I followed this lead but unfortunately it led nowhere.

I have come to a brick wall. Have you any thoughts?

No hurry.

Polly

[loobylooayr]

Gosh, Where to begin   
You've done a lot of work Polly - I looked at some of those records too and I'm not convinced Marion was related the Janet/ Jessie Woodburn and her extended family. I am leaning towards the theory that she was employed by Jessie and Willie Woodburn , who seem to be women of independent means. Perhaps she is distantly related - or it's just a co-incidence. 
BTW- for future reference - the name Willie was possibly pronounced Wylie.

I suggest you go back to what you know for sure - and you know that your Marion married Thomas McCulloch in Kilmarnock on 16th Dec 1845. Can I ask, have you looked at the original handwritten register on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk ? 
Although record keeping before 1855 (when compulsory registration came in to force) was patchy, it could be worth looking at this record. It may have another name (i.e father's name) or the name of the place the bride/groom lived. Or it could have absolutely nothing beyond what you know already.

Looby

[pollyhow]

Thanks for such a quick reply Looby. It must be late at night where you are.

I never got much info at all from the image I viewed in ScotlandsPeople. Just a marriage register entry saying “Kilmarnock 16 December 1845. Thomas McCulloch in Morton Place and Marion Woodburn near Bonnyhill were proclaimed on the three preceding Sabbaths and were married this day by the Revd Mr Young.” Unfortunately no personal details about either party, apart from where they lived and that didn’t mean much to me.

You could be right about Marion not being closely related to the other Woodburns in the census records. I think I will have to accept that John Woodburn and Mary Brown are her parents since it is the only birth/baptismal record for a Marion Woodburn born around that time (I have been saying this for some time but finally I have to accept it).

But just what happened to the parents after Marion’s birth is a mystery. It may have to be left for a future researcher to find the answer to this.

Bye for now
Polly

[loobylooayr]

 Good Morning - well it is in Ayrshire    
Thanks for the marriage info Polly.
Firstly Thomas's address on the parish register - Morton Place was a stone's through from Grange Street where Marion Woodburn (who looks extremely likely to be your ancestor ) worked.
Kilmarnock, 1839 had according to the Statistical Accounts for Scotland which can be viewed for free at www.edina.ac.uk  6 carpet factories (and indeed the trade flourished for many years, sadly all gone now) - so Thomas as a carpet weaver must have returned to Kilmarnock for work. Indeed the street he's living in- Morton Place - is probably named after Thomas Morton, also resident there in 1841/1851. He was an engineer who invented a barrel loom which revolutionised the carpet industry.


Although there are only 162 Woodburns living in Ayrshire according to the 1841 Census , I cannot see a relationship with any of them to Marion     
John and Mary (nee Brown) see to have vanished. There are certainly no more births after Marion in 1819  and that would make me suspect that one or both of them could had died not long after. Looking for a remarriage for Mary Brown would take a lot of time, patience and cash and my turn up naught. A remarriage for John Woodburn might be able to be traced.

In fact this couple here interested me  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT26-G25
John Woodburn and Lily/Lilias/Lelia McSkimming married in 1824 at Maybole.
This couple are living at Cottage Inn, Kilmarnock on the 1841 Census -
WOODBURN       John       M       40       Agricultural Labourer                   
WOODBURN       Lilly       F       35               
WOODBURN       John       M       12                          
WOODBURN       Janet       F       8                          
WOODBURN       Maryann       F       5                          
WOODBURN       Alexander       M       2m           

All are born in Ayrshire.
Now Polly what really has excited me  about this family is, and I've just discovered this as I bob back and forth researching and typing this reply is.......
that 2 entries along from them on the Census are a family called Paton whose address is Bonnihill
From what I can glean Bonnyhill is a rural location on a back road between a village called Crookedholm(which sits on the outskirts of Kilmarnock) and a town called Galston. I walked this very road during the summer. It would have been part of Kilmarnock Parish.
So could this family be Marion's and could Cottage Inn near Bonnihill be her home address when she's not in service.

This Woodburn couple are still in roughly the same area on the 1851 Census -
Holms Cottage, Kilmarnock -   again rural    
      WOODBURN       John       Head       M       M       54       Agricultural Labourer        Ayrshire - Craige           
     WOODBURN       Lilias       Wife       M       F       50               Ayrshire - Ayr           
     WOODBURN       Mary       Dau       U       F       15       Hand Sewer        Ayrshire - Kilmarnock           
    WOODBURN       Alexander       Son       U       M       10       Scholar        Ayrshire - Kilmarnock           
    WOODBURN       Thomas       Son       U       M       7       Scholar        Ayrshire - Kilmarnock           
    
 I realise this John is not a weaver, but as this infornation is provided on Marion's death cert it may not be correct.
Certainly the John Woodburn who marries in Kilmaurs, and has a child in West Kilbride could have been an Ag Lab following work. That could also have taken him south to Maybole (where John Woodburn above marries) and then back to Kilmarnock area. And it has to be remembered that at this period many rural people as well as townsfolk would be hand loom weaving too.

I think this couple need to be looked at closer. They are certainly your best bet so far.    

Phew, epic post comes to a close.
Better get on with my morning now.....oops it's 12 noon.
Speak later,
Looby

   

[pollyhow]

Thank you for your new and exciting information Looby. It has given me lots to think about. Maybe it’s not quite time yet to give up my search.

I agree with you about John Woodburn and Mary Brown. They seemed to, as it were, disappear of the radar when Marion was born. I can’t even find their death records. I tried searching in ScotlandsPeople but, having such common names, it could end up an expensive task to look at all the images that may possibly belong to them. I hadn’t thought of searching for a remarriage for Mary Brown or John Woodburn. I may have to give ScotlandsPeople some more money after all, so I can look into this.

I still have a niggling thought that the birth record we have for Marion (i.e. born 3 Oct 1819 to parents John Woodburn and Mary Brown) isn’t necessarily my ancestor. I remember what you said earlier about record keeping before 1855 being patchy. Maybe “my” Marion’s birth or baptism wasn’t recorded and the birth record we have belongs to another Marion Woodburn? Marion's death registration says she was 92 when she died (in Nov 1908) and her headstone inscription says she was 90 years, but maybe she wasn't as old as people thought? She could have been born to a couple who married in the early 1820s. It's worth considering anyway.

I was interested in your findings about the couple in Holms Cottage, Kilmarnock. But I can’t get out of my head that Marion’s death registration showed her father to be a weaver. Her grandson was the informant. Maybe he had heard Marion speak about it.

Fancy Morton Place being near Grange Street – that is good to know. Great work on your part to find this out. It looks like that 1841 census record was the correct Marion.

Now that I have your new information I will do a bit more investigation and get back later.

Bye for now
Polly