Owen H Jones and Catherine Williams - circa 1860s Caernarvon

[jstjones]

I originally posted this last Novemeber in Wales General:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=701675.0

Since then I have learned from my father's cousin that my great-grandfather was from Caernarvon. So I'm hoping someone here may be able to shed some more light.

I feel like I'm searching for a certain pair of needles in a pile of needles the size of a haystack! lol.

My name is John William Jones and all I know about my father's father's family and ancestry is this:

My father's name is William H Jones, Jr. and he had a brother Owen H and a sister Glenna H.

My grandfather was William H Jones Sr. and he had brothers named John O, Hugh Owen, and Robert, and a sister Elizabeth.

My great grandparents came to the U.S. from Wales between 1883-1887, settled in Parsons, Luzerne County, Pennsylvania and were married about 1889. His occupation was Stone Mason.

- Owen JONES, born January 1862-1864 in Wales, both parents born Wales.
- Catherine WILLIAMS, born December 1868 in Wales, both parents born Wales.

It's not clear if Owen and Catherine emigrated together or even if they came from the same area of Wales or knew each other beforehand. On the U.S. Census forms she made a point to say that she was born in "North Wales". What might she have meant by that?

In the other post shellyesq pointed me to Owen's death certificate (1913) in the U.S. where he was still listed as a stone mason and his parents were shown as "Owen Jones" and "Annie Evens" (or Evans).

That's all I know! The usual search methods are pointless and I have no idea where to start or where to turn. Is my quest to find my Welsh roots hopeless?

On the other post Keyboard86 found this potential family in the 1881 UK census:-

Hugh Jones 58 occ Slate Quarry Agent
Mary 48
Robert H 21 occ Slate Quarrier
OWEN H 19 occ Slate Quarrier
Hugh H 16 occ Slate Quarrier
William H 14
Elizabeth H 12
Ann H 9
Ellen H 5
Plus 1 Servant
All born Llandwrog, Caernarvonshire
Residing at 1, Fron Uchaf, Llandwrog, Caernarvonshire
Census Ref RG11/5564/34/23

Which at first glance looks promising because it is the right shire and Owen's age matches, along with his occupation, and many of the children's names match those of Owen's own but the parents don't match his death certificate and most telling is that Keyboard86 later found the same family including Owen in the 1891 U.K. Census. Since we have also found my Owen's and Catherine's marriage certificate dated 1889 in the U.S. it doesn't add up.

Thank you in advance for any advice you might be able to offer.
John W. Jones

[Mair]

Hi John

My cousin had a similar brick wall -  "born Wales" is a really large haystack especially when you've to find a Jones!  Have you searched for any obituaries for your ggfather in the US? An article or something like that may give a diamond of a clue to the immigration or even birth place of your ancester.

Good hunting

Mair

[Huwcyn]

 Its highly likely that your g-grandmother came from the same part of the world as your g-grandfather, so I was wondering whether you'd found her in the Pennsylvania Death Certificates ? Knowing her parents would give you something.

[dawnsh]

Hi John

In England the information of death certificates is informant-driven so there are many occasions when the information in the certificate doesn't add up as the informant sometimes took a 'best guess'

Is this the same situation in the US?

Dawn

[dawnsh]

I note that Owen's date of birth is not consistent but 1861 is mentioned on his marriage.

is this a contender for the 1871 census?

RG10
Piece   5718
Folio    26
Page    16

1 New Street Ebenezer, Llanddeiniolen, Carnarvon

Owen Jones Head 48 Fiter up - All born Carnarvon   
Anne    Jones Wife 46 Fiter Ups wife
Jane A Jones Daughter 15 Scholar
Owen Jones Son 10 Scholar   
Richard Jones Son 8 Scholar
Mary    Jones Daughter 6 Scholar   
John    Jones Son 4 Scholar

[dawnsh]

and 1861?

Ebenezer Village, Llanddeiniolen

RG9
piece 4341
Folio 61
Page Number 26

Owen Jones 39 Slate Quarryman
Ann Jones    33
Jane Jones    5
Mary Jones    3
Owen Jones 5mos
   

[dawnsh]

1881 still in Ebenezer, 23 New Street

RG11
Piece   5567
Folio 66
Page Number 19

Owen Jones 59 Turner Iron at Quarry
Ann Jones    55
Jane A. Jones    25 Dressmaker
Owen O. Jones    20 Blacksmith
Grace Owens    93 Mother in Law

[jstjones]

Hi Dawn!
I don't have first hand experience with death certificates (yet!) but I believe that over here they are "informant driven" as well. I found his at:
http://interactive.ancestry.com/5164/41381_2421406260_0589-02897/386921?

His birth is given there as 1864. The "informant" was a Mr. or Mrs. C W Brown who apparently lived on the same street (Oliver) as Owen did (per census records) but I'm thinking he died of a work related accident based on the description of the cause of death. It would seem that the informant may not have know the exact date of Owen's birth because the day and month given was also the day and month of his death so as you say it was probably a guess, to put him at 49 at the time.

It seems odd that there is no mention of his wife Catherine, but it does indicate that he was buried in the City Cemetery which is consistent with my Uncle's recollection. He remembers going there several times on Memorial day with her.

Not long after his death she moved along with her children still at home) to Elmira, NY where her eldest son John had moved (apparently for employment) and they all lived together for a time according to census records. She later remarried to a James Cahill and died in 1951. I found her obit in the Elmira Star-Gazette:

Mrs. Catherine Jones Cahill, 85,
of 616 Chester St. Sunday evening,
Sept. 16, 1951. Survived by sons,
John, Hugh, William and Robert
Jones, all of Elmira: seven grand-
children; eight great-grandchildren.
The body is at the McPherson-McIn-
erny Funeral Home, 1003 Walnut
and late this afternoon will be
removed to the family home where
funeral will be held Wednesday at
2 p. m. The Rev. William H. Willits.
Woodlawn Cemetery

[jstjones]

@Huwcyn:
Thank you for your response. I have not yet located Catherine's certificate of death but I will keep trying. In the meantime I did find her obituary (see post above). As I have noted she was usually the person supplying the household information to the census takers and she was consistent in reporting her place of birth as "N. or North Wales". Is there any significance to that? What would it have meant in that era (or today)? The area including Caernarvon or possible Angesley? Or both?

I do see from their marriage record:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-21944-31343-60?cc=1589502
that at the time of their marriage they lived in nearby towns after coming to America, but that would seem to indicate that they and/or their families came over separately. In fact I've found nothing yet to indicate whether either of them came alone or with family.