Author Topic: Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.  (Read 3069 times)

Offline Purplepeach

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Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.
« on: Sunday 11 January 15 16:22 GMT (UK) »
Charles Kingswell son of Benjamin Kingswell was married to Jane Milligan, eldest daughter born [no date] in Jamaica, of James Milligan, a farmer and Elizabeth Wills of Brigbury, Whippingham. I cannot trace any children for Charles and Jane who were married 22 April 1847 at Bonchurch in the presence of Barnabas Kingswell and Caroline Kingswell.  Does anyone know anything at all of these individuals or their families, please, and why Jane was born in Jamaica ?   Very grateful for any suggestions!

Offline chempat

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Re: Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 11 January 15 18:29 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to the boards, purplepeach.

Could you say how you got back to these people, as there must be some connection for you to arrive at them?

Thank-you.

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Re: Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 11 January 15 18:36 GMT (UK) »
Are either of these deaths for either Jane or a child of their's?

Deaths June quarter  1852  Jane Kingswell Isle of Wight   

Deaths June quarter 1859  Jane Kingswell  Isle of Wight   

Added:
Ignore, just found in 1871 1881 etc,

Offline Purplepeach

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Re: Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.
« Reply #3 on: Monday 12 January 15 18:54 GMT (UK) »
Hi, thank you for your quick reply.  My husband and I are interested in the inhabitants of Luccombe Chine and Chale/ Blackgang as part of our research of the loss of properties due to landslips on the Undercliff'.  My husband is a geologist and islander with a life long interest for Chale, its history, geology and its shipwrecks!
I am a long standing FH researcher so still have access to Ancestry and have recorded all the different census returns.  My current searches for Charles Kingswell, his wife Jane and the other closely related Kingswell families in Luccombe Chine started as idle curiosity as to why Jane Milligan was born in Jamaica.  I have checked as many of the BMD's available from Ancestry, familysearch, the Isle of Wight Family History records and Jamaican Family Search records without any success.  Jane appears firstly in 1841 living with her family in Whippingham.  Because there is no relationship in 1841 as their daughter, available I acquired her marriage certificate to Charles which, of course, states the names of both fathers.  Jane's father, James Milligan married Elizabeth Wills on 1 March 1823, a date which is not readily compatible with her ages on the census forms.  If Jane really was born before 1823, then who was her mother and why was she in Jamaica?  What was James as a Labourer on the certificate, doing out there?  Working briefly on a plantation?
Somebody has entered a brief family record on Familytree Maker but makes no mention of Jane at all and no mention of Henry the youngest child of James and Elizabeth Milligan Farmer of Brigbury, Whippingham either.    There lies the conundrum.

The two dates of death which you have kindly given me do not apply to our Jane who appears in all censuses up to 1881 after which date both Jane and Charles die. According to IOW FHS
Charles died age 73 in 1890 recorded in Newport.
Jane [possibly the correct Jane] died age 81 in 1892 at Godshill but why have I not yet found her mentioned in the 1891 census and why in Godshill instead of Luccombe or Newport like Charles?
Neither have I been able to find any children for them.  All their neighbouring Kingswells produced plenty of kids, but nothing for Jane and Charles.  The only possibilities may be the following names from the IOW FHS. but they would need to be verified by entries in the parish registers for Bonchurch to establish who the parents were of these infants, all of whom fall between the census dates.

William Henry  1849 Godshill  4 months.
Female            1852 Godshill  1 minute
William            1855 Ryde      4 yrs.
Charles           1858  Ryde      11 months
George Henry  1858  Cowes    1 yr.  but unlikely as the name pattern is wrong
Female            1861  Ryde      1 day

I am also puzzled by the place names.  Were those simply the places where the names had to be registered, where the register Offices would have been?  If so, then no reference to Luccombe or Bonchurch would be available except through baptismal records.

I apologise for this long ramble but it really is quite a big puzzle!


Offline Purplepeach

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Re: Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.
« Reply #4 on: Monday 12 January 15 19:06 GMT (UK) »
Hi, thank you for your quick reply.  My husband and I are interested in the inhabitants of Luccombe Chine and Chale/ Blackgang as part of our research of the loss of properties due to landslips on the Undercliff'.  My husband is a geologist and islander with a life long interest for Chale, its history, geology and its shipwrecks!
I am a long standing FH researcher so still have access to Ancestry and have recorded all the different census returns.  My current searches for Charles Kingswell, his wife Jane and the other closely related Kingswell families in Luccombe Chine started as idle curiosity as to why Jane Milligan was born in Jamaica.  I have checked as many of the BMD's available from Ancestry, familysearch, the Isle of Wight Family History records and Jamaican Family Search records without any success.  Jane appears firstly in 1841 living with her family in Whippingham.  Because there is no relationship in 1841 as their daughter, available I acquired her marriage certificate to Charles which, of course, states the names of both fathers.  Jane's father, James Milligan married Elizabeth Wills on 1 March 1823, a date which is not readily compatible with her ages on the census forms.  If Jane was born before 1823, and all her census statements hover around 1813, then who was her mother and why was she in Jamaica?  What was James as a Labourer on the certificate, doing out there ten years before his marriage?  Working briefly on a plantation perhaps? 
Somebody has entered a brief family record on Familytree Maker but makes no mention of Jane at all and no mention of Henry the youngest child of James and Elizabeth Milligan Farmer of Brigbury, Whippingham either.    There lies the conundrum.

There is a little more info from Jamaica about a Jane Sophia Milligan in 1823, but not for today.

The two dates of death which you have kindly given me do not apply to our Jane who appears in all censuses up to 1881 after which date both Jane and Charles die. According to IOW FHS
Charles died age 73 in 1890 recorded in Newport.
Jane [possibly the correct Jane] died age 81 in 1892 at Godshill but why have I not yet found her mentioned in the 1891 census and why in Godshill instead of Luccombe or Newport like Charles?
Neither have I been able to find any children for them.  All their neighbouring Kingswells produced plenty of kids, but nothing for Jane and Charles.  The only possibilities may be the following names from the IOW FHS. but they would need to be verified by entries in the parish registers for Bonchurch to establish who the parents were of these infants, all of whom fall between the census dates.

William Henry  1849 Godshill  4 months.
Female            1852 Godshill  1 minute
William            1855 Ryde      4 yrs.
Charles           1858  Ryde      11 months
George Henry  1858  Cowes    1 yr.  but unlikely as the name pattern is wrong
Female            1861  Ryde      1 day

I am also puzzled by the place names.  Were those simply the places where the names had to be registered, where the register Offices would have been?  If so, then no reference to Luccombe or Bonchurch would be available except through baptismal records.

I apologise for this long ramble but it really is quite a big puzzle!

Offline chempat

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Re: Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.
« Reply #5 on: Monday 12 January 15 19:46 GMT (UK) »
Are you sure Charles died in 1890?

1891 census Bonchurch  Hampshire (Sub registration district: Godshill)
Charles Kingsmill 80 Fisherman b Ryde
Jane Kingsmill wife age 79 b Jamiaca


Offline chempat

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Re: Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.
« Reply #6 on: Monday 12 January 15 19:53 GMT (UK) »
Deaths?  Together:

Deaths September quarter 1892   
Charles   Kingswell   84    I. Wight    2b   352   
Jane Kingswell     81    I. Wight    2b   351   

Offline Purplepeach

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Re: Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.
« Reply #7 on: Monday 12 January 15 21:02 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
Now you really have me!  Where does this 1891 census appear?  I have tried National Archives 1891 but I still cannot find Charles and Jane yet you have got the crucial information that they are still alive which is great.  Therefore, the death dates I suggested are not valid for Charles anyway.
Does the 1891 give their address?
I have never used National Archives before.  Are there any special tips I need?
I shall try again.

Offline chempat

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Re: Charles Kingswell, fisherman of Luccombe Chine, IOW.
« Reply #8 on: Monday 12 January 15 21:28 GMT (UK) »
I got the information from Ancestry, where they are hiding as Kingsmill.

The address is Luccombe xxxx.       Luccombe Shore?

No nearer an explanation for Jamaica birth.