Author Topic: John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness  (Read 10146 times)

Offline searchr

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John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness
« on: Thursday 22 January 15 03:01 GMT (UK) »
I would love some help in tracing John SMALL. He was b in Caithness about 1838, but can't be the one I come across e.g. here: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=small32
who was the son of a John Small and Jane CALDER, because that John Small m Louisa MUNROE 1862 and was still in Caithness in 1871 and later, whereas my John SMALL married Harriet MARKWELL in Queensland, Australia 9 Oct 1863 and stayed in Australia in Queensland and later New South Wales.
That is, unless he was a sailor and had a family in each port. His father was a sailmaker and fisherman, but I don't know his father's name.

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Offline Joyful

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Re: John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 22 January 15 05:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi searchr

There was a Small family in the 1851 Census living in Pulteney 88 Kinneard St Caithness.
John 52 sea man b Watten
Janet 21 dau b Wick - no occupation given- must have been at home :-\
John  13 son b   "
Vellum 12 son b Wick
Isabella 11 dau b Wick

The wife/mother must have died :-\ John, Vellum and Isabella were all 'at school'

When did your John arrive in Australia?

Anyway, something to consider ;)

Joy
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Offline searchr

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Re: John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 22 January 15 09:27 GMT (UK) »
sounds wonderfully promising!
Thanks so much.
I just have this niggling thought, though. Following through on all the censuses e.g. on freecen, there only ever seems to be the one John Small that age, with birth & census counties Caithness, the one who's married Louisa on the 1871, and it seems visiting on the 1861. Also, allowing for children going away/ marrying, that does roughly seem to be the family from worldconnect, with mother Jean (Jane Calder?) on the 1841.

I don't know when he came to Australia, other than the marriage. I'm wondering if he might have been crew rather than passenger. Maybe he just sailed away with his family as a baby. I responded in this thread too: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=699715.0

Offline trish1120

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Re: John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 22 January 15 11:27 GMT (UK) »
Do his Australian Marriage/Death Cert not have any extra info?


Trish :)
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Offline Annette7

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Re: John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 22 January 15 12:01 GMT (UK) »
There are various trees on ancestry which state John Small was bc.1840 Gorbals, Lanarkshire??

How do you know your John came from Caithness and his fathers occupation?

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

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Offline Annette7

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Re: John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 22 January 15 12:31 GMT (UK) »
The Gorbals John Small would seem to make sense.   According to 1841/1851 census his parents were David Small and wife Margaret (she's not around 1851 so possibly died).   David Small was indeed a Sailmaker and he himself was born in Wick, Caithness.

I note that John and Harriets first son was named David, which is following the Scottish naming tradition of naming first born son after paternal grandfather.

As you yourself have discovered there was only the one John Small in Caithness itself born that time and he remained in Scotland.

Presumably 'Caithness' and 'Sailmaker' have come from family legend, and it looks like it was John's father, and not himself, who was from Wick, Caithness and a Sailmaker.

David's aged varies greatly i.e. 1841 ca.1811, 1851 ca.1803, 1861 ca.1813!   He died in 1866 Clyde, Lanarkshire (mmn shown as Tait) aged 60? (bc.1806).   However, familysearch shows that David Small was bp.29/3/1801 Wick, Caithness, son of David Small and Janet Tait.

This appears to be your family.

Annette         
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Annette7

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Re: John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 22 January 15 12:48 GMT (UK) »
From familysearch, David Small married Margaret Sutherland 14/11/1834 Wick, Caithness - 3 children shown in 1851:Jean 15, David 13 and John 11.   Firstborn Jean shown born Wick, Caithness ca.1835/6 and then they moved to Glasgow by the time David born circa 1837/8 and John ca.1839/40 born.

So, yes, family originated in Caithness but left there ca.1836 for Glasgow where sons David and John were born.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Annette7

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Re: John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 22 January 15 12:56 GMT (UK) »
David Small senior married Jannet Tait 24/11/1796 Watten, Caithness.

They were both still alive at Wick in 1851 and David shown bc.1778 Ceres, Fifeshire and Janet bc.1775 Watten, Caithness (where they married).   David Small senior was a farmer.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline searchr

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Re: John SMALL b abt 1838 Caithness
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 22 January 15 19:41 GMT (UK) »
Thanks all! It all makes sense now. David Small and Jannet Tait are the parents of John Small & Jane Calder in the tree above, and David Small and Margaret Sutherland and children, including the John I now believe is mine, are on it too, with no more information about my John other than the birth you worked out in Gorbals.
The birth in Caithness and the sailmaker and fisherman info about his father is from his New South Wales death certificate in 1917. The informant was son David. Before I read all of your extra info, I'd just worked out that I should get his marriage certificate too. I will.
This is amazing! I'm so glad I put in the query and that you all did so much. Thanks again.
If I mark this completed by pressing the button, what does this really mean? Can posts from me and others still be added? Is it just moved to a different section? Will it still come up in searches?
I do still want to know how he got here and don't think the marriage certificate will help with that. If I posted about that, where do you think it should go? I know he ended up in Queensland, but don't know to which state he actually emigrated or the place the journey started.