The Wingates of Stirling Scotland

[Old-Bonez]

Here I am again trying to break down the wall to find the parents of George Thomas Wingate. He was born before 1776 and died 1st Sept 1820 in Stirling. From his naval career it is obvious that he was known by his middle name, Thomas.

Other chats on this site talks about his marriage in 1801 to Thamzin Devonshire. I also have their children with deaths of Thomas, Elizabeth & Lucretia in Australia. James died onboard the Breadlebane off the west coast of Africa when returning from Australia to Scotland. The eldest John (b. Plymouth Dock 1800) I have nothing on & the same goes for William Devonshire Wingate (b. Stirling 1815).

So who were the ancestors of GT Wingate ... Some time back I came across a possible James Wingate b. abt 1750

Another researcher tells me that 4 of the children were Christened together in Stirling upon their return in 1815 and the last child William was born in Dec 1815 there.

So what can I figure out about the family ... Obviously Gentlemen with a little money This was from crimea1854 on RootsChat previously
Lieut G T Wingate was the Captain of HMS Biter, a 12 gun brig, (177 tons 24.4x6.9m) when she was run aground (wrecked) near Calais on 10 November 1805.

Amongst his crew, who were also taken prisoner, were a Midshipman W. I. Devonshire and a Petty Officer (1st class) John Wingate.

So we have possibly his wifes brother as well as possibly his own brother, John Wingate. I have newspaper finds in the Caledonian Mercury and Glasgow Herald.

Is there an online Parish Clerks Project for the Stirling Church that I could sift through??

Even Headstone records may assist in breaking down this wall

Any thoughts or hints on where to try next would be greatly appreciated.
Rob

[fifer1947]

My connection with the Stirling Wingates goes back to Henry Doig who married a Margaret Wingate their son Henry [Clerk in Stirling bn 13 Dec 1795] was the father of Margaret Wingate Doig bn 1825 mar into my Stewart line (in Stirling 1847) emigrated to Usborne Ontario c1851 and died there 14 Apr 1881, they had a family of 8.

I confess I have gone no further with Margaret/Henry's line but Ken Doig may know a bit more http://www.doig.net/Genealogy.html

[trish1120]

I am sure you have found this;
THOMAS Wingate Christened 07 Feb 1775, Stirling, Stirling, Scotland
Parents James WINGATE and Janet FISHER
Siblings;
JOHN, 04 April 1762
ALEXANDER, 23 June 1765
WILLIAM, 02 April 1767
JEAN, 05 Nov 1768
WILLIAM, 5 Nov 1770
GEORGE, 28 March 1776
JANET, 4 Feb 1780
ELIZABETH, 29 April 1782
(Familysearch.Org)

I just though I would let you know Elizabeth IVEY was a widow when she Married John DEVONSHIRE, 15 Aug 1765, St Mary, Truro, Cornwall
They Baptised;
JOHN, 29 Dec 1767 St Mary, Truro
Then at St Macra, Maker
MARTHA, 27 Aug 1771
MARY, 24 June 1774
THOMASIN, 4 Sept 1775******

She also had a illeg Chiild before they Married;
John Devonshire IVEY, Baptised 17 July 1765 St Nary, Truro, Mother Eliz IVEY, Base Child, Widow
He was Buried same day.
 
Possible 1st Marriage;
30 Aug 1758, St Ives
Mark IVEY, Bachelor of Truro Parish, Occp Sadler to Elizabeth PAWLEY, Spinster
Witnesses, Nicholas Ivey/John Baron

They Baptised St Ives;
WILLIAM, 13 July 1759
ANN, 27 Dec 1760
JANE, 16 April 1762, (Note, Mark, deceased##)


The reason I picked this is a Stephen PAWLEY was a Witness to the 1765 Marriage of John Devonshire to Elizabeth Ivey, Widow.
A Stephen PAWLEY, Mariner, Married Mary CARYLON same Church 09 Jan 1766

Stephen PAWLEY Baptised 19 Jan 1739/4240 same Church to WILLIAM/ELIZ (Note; Mr William)
Siblings;
ELIZ, 23 Feb 1735/36 (Mr William)*****
FRANCIS, 14 Feb 1741/42

WILLIAM Pawley (Mr William) was Buried St Ives 10 May 1778

All above on FreeREG

Trish

[Old-Bonez]

Ahh ... Trish
Yes I had found that however I am having doubts if I have somehow possibly crossed to another family. This is why I'm asking for info on an Online Parish Clerks project or similar to take any doubts out of the situation.

In the past I have found errors in FamilySearch so I only use it for hints on where to look. In this case this family fits in very well except we have both a George & Thomas. In fact It even lists a John which in newspaper reports was captured by the French from the gunship Biter which GT Wingate was in command. Surely it is correct.

I have already come to the conclusion that his real birth name is George however it appears that he preferred to be called Thomas. I have no proof even it it was his middle name or if it was simply adopted.

Looking through Newspaper clippings we have ...
Caledonian Mercury May 15 1800 -
"Loyal Stirling Volunteers, To be 2nd Lieutenants ... George Wingate"
Caledonian Mercury Jun 6 1805 -
"..... by order of the Lieutenants of Division. Tho. Wingate, C.G.M."

He was given orders as George and he calls himself Thomas. So if FamilySearch find is correct than I think that George b.Mar 1776 is my ancestor and not Thomas Feb 1775. Yes I'm also accepting the possability that both George and Thomas were Lieutenents!


Your Jump to the Devonshires took me a little by surprise as I really had only brushed over this line. I had tried to use FreeREG some years back and had continual lockups so I hadn't been back since. Looking at it now it seems to be quite functional ... Thank you!  I'll need a little time to get this new data down in order and to see how it fits.

In Australia both the Wingate & Devonshire names are still being given as middle names 5 generations later.... I can't see it stopping either. It will be nice to add additional info to our records.

Thanks Trish ... I'll get back to you in a couple of days.

Rob

[trish1120]

Hi Rob,
Greetings from Sydney!
Sorry I got side tracked and threw you with the Devonshire info but thats how my mind works.
When I get stuck I go sideways to see if any new info comes up.

I was actually looking for the 1801 Marriage to see if any Witnesses were named originally.

Trish

[Old-Bonez]

Trish ... Just a couple of Suburbs away.

You have provided a great link without knowing it ...
• James' wife was Janet Fisher (m abt1762)
• In Sydney a Capt William Fisher of Customs (from 1828)
• The Sydney Monitor reported on 22nd Dec 1830 "Three Miss Fishers and Master Fisher, daughters and son of Captain Fisher, of the Revenue Cutter (had arrived in Sydney), his wife, who had accompanied his family, died on the voyage"
• Daughter of GT Wingate (Son of James) ... Lucretia married George Fletcher in Marylebone Aug 1831 and witness were a James Fisher and her sister Elizabeth. Within 5mths they had left for Sydney
• 1834 James & Elizabeth Wingate arrive in Sydney
• Jun 1836 Elizabeth Wingate married Capt William Fisher in Maitland at Cedar Ford which is the property adjacent to her sister Lucretias' property.

It appears the Fishers & Wingates were close families

lol ... I'm still digesting your Devonshire info

Rob

[Old-Bonez]

Thanks for your comments Fifer

I have had a bit of a look at Ken's site and it does appear to be getting close to what I know of mine. I have emailed him direct and will post the results on here.

We have a common name of Alexander Wingate which might fit together if we can find dates.

Back to the Devonshires

Again Trish your finds slot in fairly well but I did have trouble getting my head around exactly what you had revealed .... All looks good.

When Lieut GT Wingate was wrecked on the gunship Biter and everybody was captured by the French one of the captives mentioned was "WI Devonshire" which I had always presumed was a brother-in-law (GT Wingates wifes brother).

Your finds do not include him so now I have another search to work out just how he fits in. (Possibly a cousin or uncle to Thamzin??)

Any clues??

Rob

[stirling76]

I'm not sure if I can help here, but I have a copy of the Minutes of the Loyal Stirling Volunteers, and there are two Wingates mentioned as being members, George Wingate who is described as a Merchant who was an Ensign and later became a Captain when the Company reformed in 1803. The other is John Wingate occupation Vintner, who is almost certainly the same Wingate who had Wingate's Inn in Stirling at which Robert Burns stayed. However, I have looked at another old Minute book of the Lodge of Freemasons in Stirling, which dates from 1759, George is there and described as a Merchant and is mentioned numerous times up until 1808. There are a number of Thomas Wingates who joined as well, this is  a copy of them. I hope this is of some small help.
Name                        Occupation and date of Joining.      Notes.
Wingate   George   merchant   2nd Nov 1799             
Wingate   Thomas                   4th May 1761
Wingate   Thomas                    26th Nov 1785   Burns Edinburgh subscriber.
Wingate   Thomas   writer   10th June 1814         
Wingate   Thomas   surgeon   1st Feb 1817   Killed in India 1818
Wingate   Thomas   ensign   2nd Apr  1827   Fort George Lodge 87

[doigk]

Greetings from Ken Doig at Bass Lake, California

I did not have the James Wingate/Janet Fisher listing but have added them with some details and Janet Fisher's parents. Please see http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=doigk&id=I74691. I suggest someone obtain a copy of James' testament. Any additions, correction, or comments welcomed.

Yield not to adversity,
Ken at www.doig.net