Author Topic: Looking for two missing Derhams  (Read 5127 times)

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for two missing Derhams
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 29 January 15 11:22 GMT (UK) »
I've found baptism records on Ancestry for Wimborne and it definitely looks like Fanny had  5 illegitimate children and a Rose Down baptised about a year after Fanny married George Down and Jessie Amelia Down (recorded as Amelia in 1881 census). On baptism record of Herbert Derham (1860), Fanny was recorded as Fanny Kent (her stepfather's surname).

Still nothing for Julia after 1871 census. Maybe she changed her name.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

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Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for two missing Derhams
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 29 January 15 11:39 GMT (UK) »
Just been looking at Herbert / Hubert Henry Hoare. His name, age and location make him a prime candidate for Laura and Henry Herbert's father at least. Maybe Georgina was George Down's (named after him).
H H Hoare was a police officer who moved around Dorset a bit. On the 1891 census he was retired policeman and in 1901, he's a painter. One census says he was born in Bridport but several other say Moreton, so I expect that is the right place. I haven't found a birth registration yet, it should be 1838 - 1840 from census age.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

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Offline Kay99

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Re: Looking for two missing Derhams
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 29 January 15 15:58 GMT (UK) »
I think this is Huburt's baptism Hubert Henry Hoare -  Parents Susan and William Hoare
Baptism -    10 June 1838 - Moreton, Dorset

There is the birth of Henry Hoare in the April Qtr 1862 Poole Reg District which covers Mordon and Moreton??

Offline kjthistory

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Re: Looking for two missing Derhams
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 05 July 17 11:01 BST (UK) »
Hi, I don’t know if this is too late to be of any interest to anyone:

“On 11 May 1857 Frances (Fanny) baptised a daughter called Julia at Colehill Dorset.”

I found this at the British Newspaper Archive via FindMyPast:

~ ~ ~
Dorset County Chronicle and Somersetshire Gazette 20 August 1857

Wimborne, Petty Sessions, Friday

Edward Cole, a railway porter, was summoned by a young woman named Fanny Derham, to show cause why he should not be adjudged the father of her illegitimate child. Mr Frederick Freeman appeared for complainant, and Mr Weston, of Dorchester, for defendant. The bench considered that complainant had made out her case, and issued an order for 1s 6d per week from the date of application, with costs.
~ ~ ~

Edward Cole was my ggg-grandfather. He was born around 1831, I haven’t found him for certain in 1841, but in the 1851 census he stated his place of birth to be Colehill. He joined the Royal Marines in 1849 at the age of 17 but was invalided out (phthisis, acquired in the service) in 1853. On 14th August 1853 he married Eliza “Hind” [Hine] and said he was a Labourer.

On 5th April 1856 Eliza Cole, wife of Edward Cole, Porter on Railway, died of Phthisis. She was 24 and had been “ill some time” (from her death certificate).

On 11th May 1857 Fanny Derham christened Julia, so Edward really didn’t hang about very long after his wife’s death. The interesting thing is that at this point Edward was free to marry, but clearly didn’t.

Apart from the above, Edward is something of a mysterious figure as I can’t find a christening for him, or for his son, my gg-grandfather, also named Edward. I know from Edward sr’s marriage that his father was James Cole, but I can’t find any hard evidence to make him the child of James Cole and Ann Lovell who married in 1822.

Edward the railway porter is probably the man who married Charlotte Feacey 2nd May 1858 in Fordington, and died there in June 1860, being buried 11th June 1860. At this point presumably the payments to Fanny Derham stopped, if indeed he had been making them in the meantime.

I haven’t yet assimilated all the details in the posts above, but Fanny Derham seems to have led an interesting life!

By the way, I think the name of Julia’s Reformatory, as shown in the picture above, says "(Rescue Society London)".

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for two missing Derhams
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 05 July 17 11:31 BST (UK) »
Thank you, that is amazing to find the father of Julia Derham. I thought it was a different man who fathered Fanny's later illegitimate children. I'll see if I can find anything more about Edward Cole
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for two missing Derhams
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 05 July 17 14:30 BST (UK) »
James and Ann Cole baptised twin sons Alfred and Edmund on 21 June 1830. On 1841 census Ann Cole age 40 and several Coles of likely age to be her children including Edmund age 10 are living at Dean Grove Wimborne. No Alfred age 10, but there is an Alfred age 4, so it looks like Edmund's twin died and they named a later child Alfred. Ann's occupation is stated as widow, but that has been crossed out, probably because that is not an official occupation.

Piece: 289  Book: 4 Folio: 23 Page Number: 9

Could this Edmund have become Edward?
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Online Jebber

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Re: Looking for two missing Derhams
« Reply #24 on: Wednesday 05 July 17 15:02 BST (UK) »
James and Ann Cole baptised twin sons Alfred and Edmund on 21 June 1830. On 1841 census Ann Cole age 40 and several Coles of likely age to be her children including Edmund age 10 are living at Dean Grove Wimborne. No Alfred age 10, but there is an Alfred age 4, so it looks like Edmund's twin died and they named a later child Alfred. Ann's occupation is stated as widow, but that has been crossed out, probably because that is not an official occupation.

Piece: 289  Book: 4 Folio: 23 Page Number: 9

Could this Edmund have become Edward?

The names Edmund and Edward are interchangeable, I have come across numerous instances.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Looking for two missing Derhams
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 05 July 17 15:11 BST (UK) »
Me too, that's what made me think he was the missing Edward.

I wonder if the missing Edward jnr was bapt Albert Ernest Edward in Fordington in 1860 s/o Edward and Charlotte nee Feacey
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline kjthistory

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Re: Looking for two missing Derhams
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 05 July 17 15:45 BST (UK) »
James and Ann Cole baptised twin sons Alfred and Edmund on 21 June 1830. ... Could this Edmund have become Edward?

That’s certainly the theory I’ve been tentatively working on all these years, but I have never been able to find any proof, and so I haven't pursued the line back any further.

The names Edmund and Edward are interchangeable, I have come across numerous instances.

That’s very interesting to know, and quite a relief! I’ve never come across this before, but perhaps now I can accept that my Edward Cole (senior) really is the son of James Cole and Ann Lovell who married in 1822. Thank you so much for this insight.

I wonder if the missing Edward jnr was bapt Albert Ernest Edward in Fordington in 1860 s/o Edward and Charlotte nee Feacey

I confess I hadn’t thought of that one, but I don’t think so. Albert Ernest Edward (aka Alfred Ernest Edward) married Mary Clatworthy Davies in 1881, while “my” Edward Cole junior married Matilda Oxford in 1875. (I know for certain that Edward and Matilda are my gg-grandparents because in 1911 my grandmother Violet May Cook is with them - just as she always told me she was - as their grand-daughter).

The most likely candidate for Edward junior (ie married Matilda) is “Edwin Ben Cole” who was christened to Edward and Eliza in Wimborne 21st March 1856, alongside his sister Eliza Christiana Cole. I haven’t yet been able to identify Edwin Ben’s birth registration, but Edward’s place of birth was given in the 1861 and 1871 censuses (when he was 7 and 17) as Middlesex. His sister Eliza Christiana’s birth was registered in RD Lambeth Q1 1856.

"Edwin Ben" may have been named after Edward senior's brother Benjamin who died in 1852, while Eliza Christiana may have been named for Edward senior's sister-in-law Christiana Clements, who married Frederick Cole in 1851.

What has really been hanging me up all these years is the fact that I have two Edwards (census and marriage certificates), but no christenings or birth registrations. But if they actually were “Edmund” and “Edwin Ben” then that works out pretty well!

Thank you both for your help; are either of you descended from Fanny or Julia Derham?