Ideas required to obtain copy of Marriage entry, Jersey City, 1874

[Elizajb]

Hi All,

I have a sticky little problem I'm not sure how to get around. I obtained the 1922 New Zealand death printout for a relative, Louisa Wadman recently and it gave information that her parents' names were Hugh and Louisa Macilroy and that my Louisa had been born in Boyle, Ireland.

Now, this Louisa married Charles William Wadman in New Jersey on August 30, 1874 and the clergyman was S.M. (or W.) Rice. At that time he was the minister of the Grace Episcopal Church, which is still in existence and still a 'working' church. I bought the marriage index record from the New Jersey State Archives hoping to check the names of the parents, who are noted on the FamilySearch record as John McElroy and Mary Dowd, so different to Louisa's death record.

The State index gives the same information as the FamilySearch record but I am unable to get a copy of the original marriage image online and the Archives told me that no individual certificates of BMDs were issued until June 1, 1878. Not to be deterred, I felt I needed to check the parents names on the original record if possible, to ensure that those listed on the State index were not actually the witnesses to the marriage. I realise it is most likely that the informant on her death record is mistaken but if I can confirm that, it would be best as it directs the path of any further research into Louisa's origins.

So, I contacted the office of the church in New Jersey by email and the office man was quite friendly but very busy leading up to Thanksgiving and asked that I contact him again after that. He thought they would probably have something and that it was in the office next door. I emailed again after Thanksgiving, but to cut a long story short, the man was always busy and kept asking me to make contact at a later date if I didn't hear back. I have done so about 4 times now and had no reply to my last email, so felt I was a bit stumped.

The other day I had the idea to email the pastor directly, explaining my problem and why I wanted to view the record. I explained that I had been pestering her office man a bit up to New Year and apologised for being a bit of a nuisance, but......no reply.

I feel I cannot contact them again or they'll be really sick of me, so I was wondering whether any Rootschatters have any ideas on how I can proceed with this in a different manner, whether there might be some other way of getting a look at this marriage record which does not involve driving the church staff up the wall. I thought they might have been quite helpful, being a church etc, but are clearly pretty busy and don't need more jobs to do.

Any ideas would be gratefully received. It may be that there is nothing I can do but I just don't know.

Many thanks,
Eliza.

[fastfusion]

1. very sticky indeed.

2. parents different... suggests to me that there two females named the same and there is a slim hope of another death.....

failing that....   uuummmm

3. there is a possiblity of a 2nd marriage and she didnt die as such....

4. go there and look at things first hand....

5. see where the parents names may have changed on census....

there has to be a plausible excuse for everything somewheres on the planet....

good luck
 

[Elizajb]

Thanks for your thoughts Fast Fusion,

I didn't think to say in my first post that there is no question over Louisa's identity.

The L. who married in New Jersey is definitely the same person who died in New Zealand. Her husband was English and emigrated to America at some point between 1861 and 1874, married Irish Louisa McElroy in New Jersey in 1874 but returned to England again between 1878 and 1881 with their first two children.

They then emigrated to New Zealand after having further family in London. They stayed in New Zealand for the rest of their lives, except one son who in early adulthood, returned permanently to the USA where he had been born.

My gut feeling is that the marriage record is probably right, in that one would presume that Louisa knows the names of her own parents, but I cannot find any other US record which might help me work it out. For example, I can't find Louisa in a US census record prior to her marriage, or on any passenger lists to America from Ireland (yet).

It's going to take a bit of dissecting for some time I think.

Regards Eliza.

[Genealiza]

Have you tried to find her in Irish records or the marriage of her parents?  Are there census records for Ireland that might show Louisa with her parents?  When was her birth?

modified:
I looked around and it looks like records for Ireland during that period are missing.  I found a tree that seems to be for one of the sons of Louisa--Charles A who died in 1973.  Is this your tree?

[Elizajb]

Yes, I have tried to find her in Irish records but have not had any luck with either that, or finding a marriage for her parents (any of the possible sets of parents' names).

I've tried just looking for each parent separately but could not dig up anything definite.

No, I don't have a tree - where did you see it? I had noticed that the family are listed in a handful of Ancestry trees but they may also be on other sites I imagine. I had a look at the info on those trees but it appeared that most people are more or less in the same place with regard to Louisa.

Her birth is not quite certain, but somewhere between 1851 and 1855.

Thankyou for taking an interest.

Regards Eliza.

[Elwyn Soutter]

The other day I had the idea to email the pastor directly, explaining my problem and why I wanted to view the record. I explained that I had been pestering her office man a bit up to New Year and apologised for being a bit of a nuisance, but......no reply.

I feel I cannot contact them again or they'll be really sick of me, so I was wondering whether any Rootschatters have any ideas on how I can proceed with this in a different manner, whether there might be some other way of getting a look at this marriage record which does not involve driving the church staff up the wall. I thought they might have been quite helpful, being a church etc, but are clearly pretty busy and don't need more jobs to do.

Any ideas would be gratefully received. It may be that there is nothing I can do but I just don't know.

Many thanks,
Eliza.

Here in Ireland churches are also inundated with genealogical requests. Some have admin teams who deal with them, others don’t and just ignore them. Many Ministers and Priests feel their priority is with their living parishioners, not the dead ones. That’s perfectly understandable. Fobbing off is a common way of handling these things.

All I can suggest is that you employ a researcher in the NJ area to contact the church by phone and ask for an appointment to see the records. That sort of forces the church into saying either yes or no. They don’t actually want to say no, for obvious reasons, so they mostly have to say yes. I have known that work. The researcher will usually need to check that it’s OK to scan or photograph the entry for you.

[Genealiza]

2 private messages sent.

[Elizajb]

Yes, I completely understand what you are saying Elwyn and I have been very conscious of being an intrusion on the workload of the church.

I may yet have to do as you suggest and employ a researcher to approach the church, but I'll wait a little longer as it is relatively recently that I contacted the office and the minister and I don't want them to heave a sigh and think what a persistent nuisance I am.

It's one of those times when I may have to be patient, but you know how it is when one is chasing something, it's very hard to make oneself make haste slowly.

Regards Eliza.

[Elizajb]

Hi All,

Finally three years later, I have an answer to my query.

I recently managed to obtain a copy of the original record with the kind assistance of a New Jersey local and  I can finally see that the names of Louisa's parents recorded on her death certificate are probably an error. The names on her marriage entry match the names on the state index record.

I had almost given up on this, after trying one or two other avenues, so am really pleased to have it settled.

Regards and thanks,
Eliza.