Author Topic: A MYSTERY.........  (Read 27556 times)

Offline minniehaha

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Re: A MYSTERY.........
« Reply #9 on: Friday 30 January 15 02:02 GMT (UK) »
Thanks again Janette,

Years ago I too, found that 1861 census entry and pondered over it for some time. My main doubt was "seaman's wife" and to a lesser extent, the birthplace of "Aberdeenshire" and the year of birth for Helen.

The birth place abuts Angus and I'm not sure now whether the year was calculated by the enumerator or the person being enumerated, so those two points probably don't matter very much.

I'm glad you have brought this census back into focus for me as I really think it must be "my" Nicoll family. There are just too many coincidences.

Did David die and James (a brother?) take his place? The girls must have been young at the time, otherwise surely some hint as to why there was a change re the man about the house would have reached their ears, either as children or adults.

Just noticed your message before finishing mine Janette. Yes, that does look to be a possibility/explanation. (Jumping ship). We have pondered this mystery for many years and maybe David and James were one and the same after all.

Minniehaha.
HAMMOND, Cainham/Caynham, Shropshire, U.K. Otago-NZ.
GALBRAITH, Ireland, Dunedin, Otago-NZ., Kensington-London, U.K.
GRANT, Sct., Dunedin, Otago-NZ., Vancouver, Canada.
GLASS, Aberdeenshire, Otago-NZ.
CAIRNEY/CARNEY/KEARNEY/Ireland, Airdrie, Scotland, Otago-NZ.
O'BRIEN Mary Ann, Limerick, Otago-NZ.
NICOL(L) James, Scotland, Otago-NZ.
SCOTT Thomas, Shetland, Otago-NZ.
MCHARDY/MCHARDIE Euphemia, Scotland, Otago-NZ.

Offline minniehaha

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Re: A MYSTERY.........
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 01 February 15 01:05 GMT (UK) »
Question.......

If David/James Nicol(l) had travelled as a crew member, presumably his daughter Ann should have been recorded on the manifest as a passenger?

Minniehaha.
HAMMOND, Cainham/Caynham, Shropshire, U.K. Otago-NZ.
GALBRAITH, Ireland, Dunedin, Otago-NZ., Kensington-London, U.K.
GRANT, Sct., Dunedin, Otago-NZ., Vancouver, Canada.
GLASS, Aberdeenshire, Otago-NZ.
CAIRNEY/CARNEY/KEARNEY/Ireland, Airdrie, Scotland, Otago-NZ.
O'BRIEN Mary Ann, Limerick, Otago-NZ.
NICOL(L) James, Scotland, Otago-NZ.
SCOTT Thomas, Shetland, Otago-NZ.
MCHARDY/MCHARDIE Euphemia, Scotland, Otago-NZ.

Offline shanreagh

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Re: A MYSTERY.........
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 09 January 19 06:57 GMT (UK) »
Had James Nicholl, the father, died before the family came to NZ?

Coming from a family where sometimes it seemed to be 'think of names for us to use on the birth certificate/christening, then we won't use them anymore', and people called by all manner of diminutives and short forms  often because they resembled a relation, I wonder if the NZ bound James/David Nicholl was christened James after his father but called David. Ot the other way round too? Perhaps he he may have resembled a David possibly on his mother's side or perhaps to stop confusion with the father.  Or there may have been a family breakup between Helen and James, the parents, and so the use of the nickname stuck.  I had a thought that he may have been called Davy which seemed a popular diminutive.

Coming to NZ with application forms being filled in for land etc or because he wanted to remember his father or claim back his 'birth' name he could have decided to revert to James.  Or perhaps he was the son who should have been called James if strict Scottish naming patterns had been followed and for some reason it was not followed.   

I wonder if we can see who completed the last census form  in Scotland. If not completed by someone in the family the enumerator may have learned the family called him Davy and made it into David. Same with the births of the children in Scotland.  Was he the informant? Did he sign there? or was it another case of an official knowing his family called him Davy/David and completed the form for him and he made his mark?

All this depends on finding a David in the family possibly on the mother's side. Or if the record is correct with the 1812 birth then a memory of his father when striking out for a new life may have been the motivator.

Now the different names for the wives .......

Agnes, Anne, Nancy are interchangeable in Ireland. 

I wonder who registered the births as informant....maybe the wife's name was Elizabeth Agnes or Agnes Elizabeth and she was called one and christened the other and whoever registered them put the 'correct' name, ie had a knowledge of the correct name ie first name as christened or registered and another person who knew the common name registered others. 

Offline minniehaha

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Re: A MYSTERY.........
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 09 January 19 07:22 GMT (UK) »
Hello Shanreagh...

Thank you for your response and the floating of ideas. All are most welcome.  :)

Just one thing, as registration did not begin until 1855 in Scotland, my ancestors unfortunately missed out on this.

I will forward your thoughts on to other family members who, with me, are trying to solve the puzzle.

Thank you again.......

Minniehaha.
HAMMOND, Cainham/Caynham, Shropshire, U.K. Otago-NZ.
GALBRAITH, Ireland, Dunedin, Otago-NZ., Kensington-London, U.K.
GRANT, Sct., Dunedin, Otago-NZ., Vancouver, Canada.
GLASS, Aberdeenshire, Otago-NZ.
CAIRNEY/CARNEY/KEARNEY/Ireland, Airdrie, Scotland, Otago-NZ.
O'BRIEN Mary Ann, Limerick, Otago-NZ.
NICOL(L) James, Scotland, Otago-NZ.
SCOTT Thomas, Shetland, Otago-NZ.
MCHARDY/MCHARDIE Euphemia, Scotland, Otago-NZ.


Offline kiwihalfpint

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Re: A MYSTERY.........
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 09 January 19 07:42 GMT (UK) »
Question.......

If David/James Nicol(l) had travelled as a crew member, presumably his daughter Ann should have been recorded on the manifest as a passenger?

Minniehaha.

Hi Minnie,

Just speculation, she might not have been recorded with her name, but could have been put down as  e.g. 10 passengers.  Used to see it that way sometimes, when I did shipping transcribing.

Cheers
KHP
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline minniehaha

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Re: A MYSTERY.........
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 09 January 19 19:13 GMT (UK) »
Very true KHP. Thanks for that...... :)


Minniehaha.
HAMMOND, Cainham/Caynham, Shropshire, U.K. Otago-NZ.
GALBRAITH, Ireland, Dunedin, Otago-NZ., Kensington-London, U.K.
GRANT, Sct., Dunedin, Otago-NZ., Vancouver, Canada.
GLASS, Aberdeenshire, Otago-NZ.
CAIRNEY/CARNEY/KEARNEY/Ireland, Airdrie, Scotland, Otago-NZ.
O'BRIEN Mary Ann, Limerick, Otago-NZ.
NICOL(L) James, Scotland, Otago-NZ.
SCOTT Thomas, Shetland, Otago-NZ.
MCHARDY/MCHARDIE Euphemia, Scotland, Otago-NZ.