Author Topic: Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan  (Read 8013 times)

Offline LewisGreenfamilysearch

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Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan
« on: Tuesday 03 February 15 05:42 GMT (UK) »
Hello to all,

After a few days of frustratingly fruitless and uneducated searching I am trying a new approach. Asking real people for help. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

My Mum is searching for information on her family in  Scotland and England. We are in Canada.

We know this info from a hard to read Birth Certificate.

Given name is Joan Gibson Hughes born in Glasgow, Scotland. January 28th, 1902

to Mary Hughes (nee Jenkins) and William Hughes, (General Labourer) they married on April 11th,1890 in Johnstone?, Dumfriesshire?

The certificate gives two place names before Glasgow but not very legible. Blenheim? may be one of them.

The Registry was done in the district of Dennistoun, County of Lanark on Feb 5th, 1902 (no hospital named so I assume a home birth?)

William and Mary had possibly 5 children: Joan, Nell, Jessie, Jean and Thomas

Joan (Joey) Gibson apparently was married but not to my grandfather Edward Green ( born in Sunderland on June 17th,  year unknown). A family secret until shortly before his death in 1970.

Joan married Desmond Patrick Lewis on 1955 emigrated to Canada shortly after Edward Green died in Kingston, Surrey 1970. She died in Canada in 1985.

We would like to know if Joan Gibson Hughes was married either once or twice and if so if there was a divorce? 

Joan Gibson Hughes/Green and Eddie Green lived in Kingston,Surrey on King Henry Rd until 1971

Any help, easy search tips or links to no cost sites would be much appreciated.

Fingers crossed!
S & J
Green - Scotland/England
Hughes- Scotland England
Jenkins- Scotland
McAllister- England/?
McDonald- Scotland/England
Rait - England/?

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 February 15 08:08 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat! ;D

FreeBMD is showing this death:

June qtr 1970
Kingston upon Thames district     vol 5c, page 1998

Green, Edward     Date of birth: 18th June 1903


Which leads to this birth:

September qtr 1903
Sunderland district     vol 10a, page 662

Green, Edward


Scottish records are available on ScotlandsPeople - a pay-per-view website.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 03 February 15 08:16 GMT (UK) »
Intriguing! ;D

Found this marriage:
September qtr 1955
Surrey, North district     vol 5g, page 848

Lewis, Desmond P
Green, Joan


If that's your Joan, then it looks like she married Edward Green first?!

And then there is this possibility?

Marriage, June qtr 1951
Leeds district     vol 2c, page 606

Gibson, Joan
Green, Edward
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 03 February 15 08:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi and welcome to Rootschat,

As KGarrad say Scotlandspeople  www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk is the place to view Scottish records.
£7 (don't know how much in Can $ but not that much ;D ) buys 30 credits and with careful use these credits can give you access to 5 BMD or Census documents - 6 credits a record.

I have done a free search on the site for a marriage in 1890 at Johnstone Dumfrieshire between a Mary Jenkins and a William Hughes and there is one result  :) . You would be able to view and download the record for 6 credits. This marriage certificate would gave you the ages of bride/groom, their addresses, their occupation, their parents names and father's occupation.
Joan's birth in the Statutory Births will also be recorded if you  wanted to double check any details.

Good luck,
Looby :)


Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 03 February 15 08:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi again,

Rereading your post I thought that 1955 was a bit late for a lady born in 1902 to be getting married and having children (which Joan obviously did  :) ).

There is a marriage on Scotlands People in 1924 at Blythswood Glasgow between a Joan Gibson Hughes and a Ralph MacAllister.  (I worked out grooms name by process of elimination on a free basic search). It may well be worth your while looking at this marriage record - Joan Gibson Hughes parents details will be recorded.
I think there is a good chance this is your ancestor - there were not that many Joan Hughes born circa 1890-1910 in Scotland.
Best wishes on your search.
Looby :)

PS. Forgot to say - free sites are few and far between especially for the period you are interested in. Scottish records are held by Scottish Goverment (Scotlands People is their website). Reliable information comes at a cost, I'm afraid.

Offline LewisGreenfamilysearch

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Re: Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 04 February 15 03:10 GMT (UK) »
A big than you for your quick responses "loobylooayr" and "KGarrad"!

I realized from your responses I made a mistake in my post (my brain is spinning from searching in circles).

I said "Joan married Desmond Patrick Lewis on 1955 emigrated to Canada shortly after Edward Green died in Kingston, Surrey 1970. She died in Canada in 1985."

I meant to explain my mother Joan married married Desmond Lewis in 1955 and emigrated to Canada.

Her mother Joan Gibson Hughes emigrated shortly after the death of Edward Green in 1970. They apparently were not married until shortly before his death but we have no record of this or a divorce from Ralph McAllister.

I did find and pay for the marriage certificate for Joan Gibson Hughes and Ralph MCAllister in April 1924 which confirms the names of Joan GH parents as William and Mary Jenkins Hughes.

I also got the marriage certificate for Mary Jenkins and William Hughes which was interesting but my search of the Scotlandspeople site for them has left me loopy. I cannot find  records for Ralph McAllister or Joan Gibson Hughes or their parents on either side. The results have been too broad and when I try to narrow them and buy them I was wrong. I may not be searching properly and have used almost 30 credits today alone with only the 2 accurate connections that you had already made for me to find :(

From the marriage certificate I found they lived (Mary  & William) and probably worked together at the address listed as "Raehills Gardens" in Johnstone, Dumfriesshire at the time they married in 1890. He was the Master Gardener and she was a housemaid. How romantic!

I'm not sure if Raehill Gardens was on what seems to be the Johnstone of the "Johnstone Bridge" family estate which may or may not be named Raehills?
Does that make any sense?

Is there any easy way to see if their may already be a family tree started that may include this family?
I don't seem to be able to fill in the blanks between where Joan Gibson Hughes was between birth and the first marriage to McAllister or to King Henry Rd, Kingston with Edward Green.
Is there specific way to search the census and confirm who they are ? I found hundreds of Edward Green's on a census list but they are not actual links to any further information and a big pink sidebar covers the right side of the list so I can't read it all.

Bless you both for being able to navigate this puzzle. You must have amazing mind power!
Green - Scotland/England
Hughes- Scotland England
Jenkins- Scotland
McAllister- England/?
McDonald- Scotland/England
Rait - England/?

Offline imchad

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Re: Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 04 February 15 20:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Raehills is the home of lord Annandale, chief of the Clan Johnstone. I have the honour of being his archivist.

Ian A McClumpha

Offline LewisGreenfamilysearch

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Re: Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 05 February 15 01:48 GMT (UK) »
Hello IMCHAD

Thank you for reading and replying Ian. You sound like the perfect person to talk to regarding this branch of the tree! Would you be able to shed some light for me?

 I have found Mary Jenkins Hughes and William Hughes listed on my Grandmothers marriage certificate with the address for both given as Raehills and Raehill Gardens.

I am questioning the following:

Do you have any understanding of what the given address means? Were they both living on the estate or just employed there? Perhaps his father also was employed there given he was a Master Gardener?
 I read a Johnstone Parish history today but it was written much earlier in 1834 and does not say much about the business of running the Johnstone family home per say. It does say all in the Parish were very comfortable and free of health issues, most chose to stay on their farms and not leave for greener pastures due to the goodness and sound thinking of The Johnstone family. So I assume I would have family further back than William and his parents in this area.

When I found the names of their parents I  searched the Scotlandspeople website and can't seem to locate births or deaths for any of them with any certainty.

William (journeyman gardener)or Mary Jenkins (they subsequently had 5 children Jean, Thomas,Jessie,Nell,Annie and Joan)

Thomas Hughes (Master Gardener)/ Jane Hughes

John Jenkins (carrier)/ Jane Jenkins (deceased before 1890)

Looking forward to learning more about Raehill
Thanks
Suzanne


Green - Scotland/England
Hughes- Scotland England
Jenkins- Scotland
McAllister- England/?
McDonald- Scotland/England
Rait - England/?

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: Requesting assistance re:Gibson Hughes -Joan
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 05 February 15 08:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Suzanne,
Just read your posts - pleased that you struck gold with Joan and Ralph McAllister's  marriage and her parents William and Mary Hughes. As you have discovered costs can be kept low on Scotlands People when you are 99.9% sure the record is yours. We have all wasted credits  ::) :) on the "maybes" !

It's interesting that the Hughes family had strong a strong connection with Raehills
 

 I have found Mary Jenkins Hughes and William Hughes listed on my Grandmothers marriage certificate with the address for both given as Raehills and Raehill Gardens.

and yet Joan was born in Denniston area of Glasgow. I would have thought that meant either by 1902 the family had moved to Glasgow or that Joan's mother maybe had family there to go to for the impending birth. Are you sure Raehills is the address on your Grandmother's marriage in 1924?

Can you give details please of Ralph's age, occupation , parents names , address at the time of his 1924 wedding so that we can try and find out something about him and therefore what happened to him?? Death or divorce etc  :-\
Looking for Joan in the period between 1924 (Glasgow marriage to Ralph)  and 1970 (Kingston Surrey  death of Edward Green) will not be easy - Census information is not available in Scotland or England for that period - the last Census released was 1911 - far too early for this puzzle.
But don't despair - it's amazing what Rootchatters can come up with !
For instance the 1951 marriage in Leeds  that KGarrad quoted -

Marriage, June qtr 1951
Leeds district     vol 2c, page 606

Gibson, Joan
Green, Edward
Have you discounted this as being your grandmother?

Finally obviously your grandmother Joan had children - your mother being one.
You are not allowed to name living or potentially living people on the site :) That is one of RC's rules. You can only name a person if you know they are no longer alive.
But do you know where and when Joan was having any children? That info will help build up a picture of where Joan was.

Looby :)