HUNTER family primarily of Hackness parish

[texas_nightowl]

Hello! My first post to this area of the forums! I will try to stick to main points, but occasionally I may ramble!

My great-great grandmother was born Mary Hunter in Yorkshire @1836. The entire family (parents and 5 siblings) excepting one brother immigrated to the US in 1853. She married my gg-gf (George Adamson) in Ohio (Pickaway County) in Sept 1855. The family continued west to Indiana where they settled in Greene County. All are buried in Marco Cemetery, Greene County, Indiana.

Mary's parents were John and Elizabeth Hunter. Her siblings are: Frank Hunter, William Hunter, Joseph Hunter, Reuben Hunter, and Elizabeth Hunter Blackwood. (Also, John Hunter, the oldest son, who remained in England.)

John Hunter was born 1812/1813 in Silpho. His wife Elizabeth was born @1816 in Malton (according to 1851 Census). Her maiden name was Wardell. A marriage license was issued 03 Aug 1835 and gave her parish as Wykeham. The marriage was 05 Sep 1835. (I do not have the bond and allegation yet...on my list of docs to order.)

While my father and I have found quite a bit, we still have pieces missing. And I have some questions.

1. Mary Hunter's birth/baptism dates: Her grave marker specifies a birth date of 31 Dec 1836 and an age of 33 ys 5 ms 15 ds at her death (15 May 1870).  However, I have not concretely found a baptism record to confirm this date of birth. And, as we all know, grave markers can be wrong.  The "closest" baptism record I've found has a Mary Hunter baptised in Wykeham parish 12 Jan 1836 with parents John Hunter & Elizabeth.
 - If the family was living in Harwood Dale, would a child have been baptised in Wykeham instead of Hackness? Does it matter that Wykeham parish was the parish of residence for Elizabeth Wardell when the marriage license was obtained in 1835 though John Hunter resided Hackness with the marriage intended to take place in Hackness.
 - Also, a baptism of 12 Jan 1836 is only 4.5 months after the marriage of John Hunter and Elizabeth Wardell (Sept 1835). (Not an unknown occurrence either!)
 - In other words, should I consider this Mary Hunter as possibly "my" Mary Hunter or not?

2. 1851 Census: I have located John and Elizabeth in the 1851 Census with the younger children (John, Francis, William, Joseph, and Elizabeth).  However, I can not locate Mary in this census. A 14-15 year may have been working outside the home and maybe she was just missed? Or was she possibly staying with other family and not listed as Mary Hunter? John and Elizabeth's household was still at Harwood Dale Mill and John is listed as a Miller & Farmer of 17 acres (employing 1 Lab).

3. 1853 emigration: The year 1853 comes from Mary's grave marker where it is stated "Emigrated U.S. 1853". The youngest son, Reuben, was baptised in March 1853, so immigration would have occurred after that.  However, I have had no luck finding the family on passenger lists via familysearch or ancestry. Does anyone have suggestions?


I will definitely have more questions in future as I continue work on Mary's parents, John Hunter and Elizabeth Wardell.  Also, Mary's husband, George Adamson, was from Yorkshire as well (though no apparent connection until they married in Ohio), but I will stop with these 3 questions as a start.

[davidft]

Hello

I have had a look at this and have some observations (I have avoided giving extra parts of the tree in case you want to look things up yourself but there are some interesting coincidences in the tree). Taking the points you raise in order

1.   Yes grave markers can be wrong, indeed I have at least one in my tree where this is the case but then the lady in question was 90 when she died so I guess there were not a lot of people around to testify the correct year. What could have happened, and this is conjecture, is in order to appear “decent” she used the birth year as 1836 so to give a good space from her parent’s marriage ie perhaps her birth date was actually 31 Dec 1835. I would not worry about a birth so near the marriage date as, as when you go further back you will see it happens again.

2.   As to the parish being Wykeham rather than Hackness I don’t think this is significant. On familysearch in the Wiki section you can see a map with the outlines of the parishes. Wykeham parish is a long thin parish that runs alongside the parish of Hackness. What i do think would be useful is to see a copy of the parish register for Wykeham to see what it says about the abode and occupation of John the father that may satisfy you that it is the correct baptism (I think it is). Whilst I do know where there are copies of the bishops transcripts for Wykeham on microfiche I am not offering to look it up at this stage as I am a bit behind on my lookups. However if no one else has looked it up for you or you cannot do it yourself ask again in a couple of months and I will see what I can do.

3.   No I could not find Mary Hunter in 1851 either. Possibly with other family as you say who may not have included her as they thought her parents would have (even though they correctly did not). However when you go back a bit further and see what other names and places appear in your tree it will give you possible clues as to where to look

4.   I did not find Mary on any ships lists around 1853 (but then I am not very good at looking those up). I do not know what version of Ancestry you used but the Worldwide version has some records that for example Ancestry.co.uk (which I use) does not have. The worldwide version also has some American immigration records if I remember correctly – have you checked them? (I did look at the passenger lists on findmypast.co.uk but did not find anything of use there)

5.   Finally do you have Mary’s death certificate? If not it would be worth checking if death certificates for the time and place where Mary died include any valuable genealogical information such as place of birth, name of parents. If so and you do not have it it may be worth seeing if you can get it if it is not prohibitively expensive (which some American records are unfortunately)

6. Have you seen the 1860 US census to see what it says about Mary? (Unfortunately she dies just before the 1870 census)

Hope the above is of use

[davidft]

In addition to the above re Mary in 1851 some parts of the census were damaged by water. It is possible Mary could be on one of these returns. The records in Yorkshire so affected are piece number 2332 that covers the following parishes

    Broadroyd Head
    Carlton
    Carr Green
    Cudworth with High & Low Cudworth
    Darton
    Darton Lane Head
    Darton with Blacker
    Mapplewell
    Notton
    Roystone
    Staincross & Swallow Hill
    Woolley

(Although they are a fair way from Hackness)

[texas_nightowl]

@davidft - Thanks so much for taking a look and giving your input!

A few quick notes/answers:

 - 1860 Census: Unfortunately nothing too noteable. I'm using the images off ancestry.com and for George Adamson and Mary's page, the contrast is pretty bad and the entry difficult to read.  However, for Mary, it appears to have an age of 25, born in England and that she is over 20 and cannot read and write.

 - Death Certificate: Unfortunately, Indiana did not require statewide registration of deaths until 1882, so well after Mary's death. No help there. Even between 1882-1900, deaths are recorded in a register, not with a certificate, by local health offices.  Mary's father John died 1883 but even so, his name is not found so far in the indexes for these registers.

 - Side notes: It may not have been clear, but I am in the US (Texas in fact) so I'm using ancestry.com world edition and same with FindMyPast. And thus it is easier for me to get US records. No US records except marriage certificate really available for Mary so far though!

 - Wykeham records: I've checked the catalog for the Family History Library (LDS in Salt Lake City, Utah) and their microfilm of the "Parish registers for Wykeham" only cover 1650-1812.  However, there is a microfilm of the bishop's transcripts for Wykeham that cover thru 1851. So I should be able to order that film to view locally.  Worst case, I see the North Yorkshire County Record Office offers a research/copy service for $$ and their catalog seems to imply the Wykeham Parish register copies in their posession go into the 1980's (and sometimes farther!).

Finally, please feel free to post additional tree information you have come across! I have really just started looking at this side of the family (after a few years concentrating on my mother's side of the family).  It looks like we have 3 straight generations of "John and Elizabeth"'s though based on my early looks! What other "interesting coincidences" did you see?  I'm still trying to prove or disprove a family relation between Mary's mother (Elizabeth Wardell) and her husband's sister's husband (Thomas Wardell). Anyway, I'd love to look at anything you found and decide whether I believe it or not!

Thanks so much!!

Trina

[davidft]

Hi

Good to see you are making progress and are further ahead and know your way around the LDS and hiring their films.

Yes the three generations of John and Elizabeth were one of the coincidences I came across; initially it caused me problems as I thought the latter two couples were one and having children for a long time at first! Anyway what I found was a follows

1.   John and Elizabeth parents of Mary. You have the marriage. John’s baptism was
16 April 1813 at Hackness son of John and Elizabeth. Other possible children from this marriage

Mary 29 Oct 1815
Jane 22 June 1817
David 3 May 1818
Hannah 4 March 1821
Reuben 10 Oct 1824
Francis 7 Oct 1827

So several names that occur in the next generation too.

2.   As you know Elizabeth was Elizabeth Wardell from Malton born circa 1816. I looked for her baptism and it was 30 Oct 1816 ay Saint Michael, New Malton to parents Francis and Mary.
Note the parent’s names. Also there were two churches in Malton, St Michael and St Leonard. Also Malton is often referred to as New Malton as confirmed here
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/NRY/Malton/index.html

3.   The marriage of John and Elizabeth should take place before 1813 but I have not immediately found a likely one. We do know from the census returns that John was born circa 1789 (1841 census) and Elizabeth circa 1784 at Whitby (1851 census). I would suggest looking for a marriage around the Whitby area might be a good idea as a lot of marriages took place in the Brides parish. We do not know whereabouts in Yorkshire John was born but this baptism is around the right date and is in Hackness so worth bearing in mind are

John born 29 Oct 1788, baptised 23 Nov 1788 at Hackness to parents John Hunter and Elizabeth Consitt


4.   It is not easy to find a marriage for Francis Wardell and Mary but a name to keep in mind in Mary Huddelson who marries on 12 April 1812 at Seamer near Scarborough. There are a number of children born to a Francis and Mary couple (just one couple?) who turn up in several places that the Hunter’s have been.

5.   It is interesting that you mentioned about a possible Wardell connection as one of the possible names for the Elizabeth born 1784 at Whitby was Wardale (I think the Wardell and Wardale names are ones that could at times be interchanged)

So I guess the next step is to look at some parish registers or possibly to see if there are any wills that may help. Might help to ask separately where to find wills from Yorkshire as there are a number of sources for pre 1858 wills and some idiosyncrasies in where some Yorkshire wills are held.

David

[texas_nightowl]

I have now ordered the death certificate for John Hunter (d. 1849). This should be the John Hunter who was born @ 1789. I hope. I do know that Elizabeth was the head of house in the 1851 census.

The children you listed mostly match up with my list. However I also have a William, son of John and Elizabeth, baptised Sept. 1810.  And as far as I can tell, the Jane baptised 1817 is the daughter of William and Ann. Unless there are 2 Jane's. Which is completely possible. So I do expect the marriage of John and Elizabeth would have been before 1810...maybe.



The Wardell tie-in is driving me batty.

WARNING: THIS IS LONG LONG LONG LONG.
And I probably repeat information once or twice.

I do believe the Wardell-Huddleson marriage is the correct one and while I need to order some documents to further support it, let me try to explain the familial relationships.

1. Elizabeth Wardell, daughter of Mary, of Wykeham Parish, married John Hunter in 1835.
 - From marriage index and census information, we know Elizabeth was born Malton. Apparently baptised 30 Oct 1816, daughter of Francis and Mary Wardell.

2. Mary Hunter, daughter of John Hunter and Elizabeth Wardell, was baptised Wykeham Parish in Jan 1836.
 - I will order the bishop's transcript film from FHL to view to confirm abode/father's occupation as a match to John Hunter of Harwood Dale.

3. Mary Hunter married George Adamson (baptised 1826, Ellerburn) in 1855 in Pickaway County, Ohio.

4. George Adamson's sister, Ann Adamson (baptised Nov 1827, Ellerburn), married Thomas Wardell of Pickering, in May 1846 in Pickering.
 - Thomas Wardell was baptised 11 Jan 1824 in Thornton Dale, son of Francis Wardell and Mary.

5. Thomas Wardell's sister Hannah Wardell was witness to his marriage (1846 to Ann Adamson) along with Hannah's future husband Robert Ecclefield.
 - Note: Hannah Wardell and Robert Ecclefield also immigrated to the USA but both died shortly thereafter. Thomas Wardell and Ann Adamson raised the 2 children of Hannah & Robert. The first child was born before Hannah and Robert married. Hannah and Robert married by license in 1851.

6. Hannah Wardell and her first child are shown in the 1851 Census with her mother Mary in Scarborough.
 - Hannah Wardell is age 23, supporting an 1827/1828 birth, and born at Thornton. Her son is age 2. Her mother Mary is listed as age 59 and lists Pickering as her birth.

7. Hannah Wardell is shown on the 1841 Census with her mother Mary in Pickering.
 - Hannah is age 13, again supporting an 1827/1828 birth. Hannah is listed as 45, so age 45-49. A younger brother is also living with them. William, age 9. Searching reveals a William Wardell, baptised 1832, in Wykeham Parish.  Also living with them...a Francis Huddleston, age 70 (so really 70-74), no occupation.
 - Other interesting note...their residence is Spotted Cow. Apparently there is/was a pub named The Spotted Cow.  Mary's occupation?  "beer hoare". The residence is between Scalla-moor Farm and Willow Gate. Which puts it on the north side of Pickering on the road to Whitby.

8. After finding the Francis Huddleston above, age 70, I started looking for deaths. 1843, Francis Huddleston, age 78, buried Harwood Dale, Hackness.

9. As you pointed out, there is a marriage of Francis Wardell to Mary Huddleston in 1812.

10. Hannah Wardell was baptised Jul 1827 in Thornton Dale, same as brother Thomas.

Basically, in addition to Mary Hunter marrying George Adamson, the two families also appear attached by these Wardells!!

The question I have been trying to solve for a while is: Is Elizabeth Wardell Hunter (b. 1816 d. 1877) the sister of Thomas Wardell (b. 1824 d. 1894)?

Based on all the above I am leaning towards yes.
We "know" Hannah and Thomas are siblings.
We "know" Hannah is living with her mother in 1841 and 1851.
We "know" that a Wiliam Wardell, son of Mary, brother to Hannah, was born Wykeham in 1832.
We "know" that Elizabeth Wardell Hunter was residing Wykeham Parish in 1835 when she married.
We "know" that Mary Hunter was baptised in Wykeham Parish in 1836.
We "know" that a Francis Huddleston was living with Mary Wardell in 1841 in Pickering.
We "know" that a Francis Huddleston was buried in Harwood Dale, Hackness (home of Elizabeth Wardell Hunter and John Hunter) in 1843.

That is just too many place and name coincidences in my book.

Do I have more parish registers and/or certificates to order? Yes. I do.
So to sum up very briefly: Francis Wardell married Mary Huddleston, daughter of Francis Huddleston. Children of Francis and Mary Wardell include: Elizabeth (born Malton) and Thomas and Hannah (born Thornton Dale). Elizabeth's daughter Mary married George Adamson. Thomas married Ann Adamson, George's sister.

[davidft]

Hello

That is very exhaustive and you have made a good job of sorting the Wardell’s out, they had me spinning when I was looking them up.

Firstly yes there is a William born to John and Elizabeth too, my mistake I made the date range too short when searching and cut him off. Not sure what I did in respect of Jane Hunter but accept she is not a daughter of John and Elizabeth, probably looked across the line from Jane and moved up to the parents of another child – my mistake sorry.

I have read the Wardell’s section a couple of times and the extra information you have to what I found certainly makes a convincing story. I agree with you that it would be good to see the parish registers to see what they can say by way of confirmation.

The Wardell’s did have several children but what is confusing is that they seem to have used all Churches to baptise children eg

Francis baptised 17 Dec 1812 at Wykeham to parents Francis Wardale (sic) and Mary Huddleson

John baptised 15 March 1818 at EBENEZER CHAPEL SAVILLE STREET-INDEPENDENT,NEW MALTON,YORK,ENGLAND to parents Francis Wardell and Mary Haddleston (sic), but why in a non-conformist church?

Perhaps another reason to see the registers.

I did look to see if there was any of the local Family History Societies that nicely covered the area you are interested in but alas it seems not so I think it’s best to proceed the way you are. Sorry it’s not more helpful but I do think you are on the right track

David