Any Cravens left around Rothwell?

[lydiaann]

New information has come to light about a Craven family from Wakefield.  The grandson, Robert Craven, was a doctor in Rothwell (Springhead) in 1853 and, thanks to another Chatter from Canada, I  have information regarding a letter from him dated that year to his cousin, Frances Gibson (nee Craven) in which he gives a lot of information,but not quite enough to identify one or two people sufficiently for me to be able to pinpoint the correct baptisms, marriages, censuses, etc.  I am trying to put some information into certain members of their fathers' family (fathers were George and John).  I have all of John's information from his marriage in Alnwick in 1804 to his death in 1847, including children and their details.  I also want to know whether the father of said George & John was married to Mary Horner (I have details of a marriage that fits perfectly) as one or two other people seem to favour a Mary Beevor.

As always, I tip my hat to you, fellow seekers, and hope for the best!

lydiaann

[BumbleB]

As you have given us very little detail, it's going to be difficult 

John married 1804 and died 1847 - how old was he when he died?  This will enable us to try and find a baptism.  Is George supposedly older or younger?

Do you have a "supposed" name for George and John's father?

A little more information might make the task you appear to have set us a little easier!  As of this moment I am completely baffled by your request. 

[lydiaann]

Because Craven is a common name around Wakefield, I thought I may be able to catch someone who was actually of that family, so sorry to have confused you! 
Parents of said John and George are: 
George Craven and Mary (?Horner). 
Family:
Charlotte, dob, dom (Edward Walker), dod and 1841-51 censuses available.
Fanny (?Frances.  This is a family name), supposedly died Jamaica, no issue, no other details
Bessy (?Elizabeth.  Also a family name).  approx dob available.  d. Wakefield, no married name, had 4 children.
John.  Said John of Alnwick, all details known.
Mary.  "Died young, single"
George.  Some info known (dob Wakefield All Saints) 1841-51 censuses available; ongoing research. 5 sons, 2 dtrs
Nancy (?Ann.  Family name) probable dob Wakefield All Saints. Died abt 1838, 10 children.
Hannah.  dob, dom (Wm Mirfin), 1841-51 censuses available.  Ongoing research.
Susannah dob Wakefield All Saints, dom (Saml Wormald), 1841-51 censuses available.

These may, or may not, be in the correct chronological order (and that would be interesting to confirm...I believe it probably is).  I was hoping to gain information on Bessy, Mary and Nancy, plus details of children as yet unknown (because of census only starting in 1841) of Charlotte, George, Hannah and Susannah.

The subject letter has also opened up further details of one of John of Alnwick's children, which is great.

Going backwards:

John of Alnwick possibly baptized 22 Feb, 1777 and Brother George on 24 May, 1779 (All Saints, Wakefield). Father, George.  George Craven, bap. 15 Jun, 1751, father Jno.  There is a marriage of George Craven and Mary Horner on 23 Jun, 1772 and one child recorded in LDS as Charlotte bap. 1773.  All these dates fit with now discovered censuses etc and all are family names.  With the eldest son naming patterns (George and JOhn) being so strong down this line right through to the early 1900s, I am fairly convinced this is my family.  However, in order to complete this generation properly, I am casting my net to the waters to see if the 'fish' on RootsChat will bite!!

[BumbleB]

Oops!  Possible spanner in the works or, yet another George/Mary liaison 

All Saints, Wakefield

17 February 1777 - George Craven and Mary Clark - botp - by Banns.  No clues from witnesses.

All Saints, Wakefield

John Craven, son of George - baptised 17 January 1778
George Craven, son of George - baptised 24 May 1779
Joseph Craven, son of George and Mary - baptised 24 August 1780

Plus others.

[BumbleB]

All Saints, Wakefield

Charlotte Craven, daughter of George, baptised 16 January 1773

Mary Craven, daughter of George and Mary, baptised 17 February 1783
Elizabeth Craven, daughter of George and Mary, baptised 2 August 1783
George Craven, son of George and Mary, baptised 26 December 1785
William Craven, son of George and Mary, baptised 14 March 1786
Ann Craven, daughter of George and Mary, baptised 8 September 1788
Thomas Craven, son of George and Mary, baptised 22 January 1788
Ann Craven, daughter of George and Mary, baptised 24 October 1792
Susannah, daughter of George and Mary, baptised 4 April 1795

Two burials:

Thomas Craven, son of George, buried 5 April 1788
Joseph Craven, son of George, buried 4 November 1791

[BumbleB]

My apologies for this, but how/why has Alnwick come into the equation?    It's a fair way from Wakefield to Alnwick and back to Wakefield, following a marriage in Wakefield, and subsequent children baptised in Wakefield.  Surely the better candidate for John is the one baptised in Wakefield on 17 January 1778, son of George.

Only my interpretation of the situation, and sorry if I have blurred the outline. 


Added:  The George Craven/Mary Beever marriage took place at St Peter, Huddersfield on 23 July 1780.

[lydiaann]

Hi, BumbleB: Thanks for the input!!

The reason for the shift to Alnwick is because John of Alnwick is my 3xGGfather, and I had come to a dead stop just over 2 years ago with him; all I knew was (from a baptismal reference to him as "of Wakefield") that some information I had from LDS may have been related to him, as baptismal dates fitted, as did the references at the bottom of my first reply.  It now transpires that the John baptized in Wakefield on 17 Jan, 1778, son of George, IS John of Alnwick. The letter that is quoted in the beginning of this thread was from George Craven's 4th son (i.e. John's nephew) to John's daughter who had obviously herself wanted information on her father's family.  Now that this letter has come to light, it sheds clearer light on John's family - of whom I could find nothing - and may now lead us further back in time.

I do have the various baptisms stated by you yesterday.  However, in the probable knowledge that John was baptised in 1777, and the fact that it was also probable that the letter contained the family members in chronological order, I was eager to see whether I could find details of Fanny (Frances?) and Bessy (Elizabeth?) who were probably born before John.  Thus the date of the Elizabeth in that list is too late - unless they held off until she was about 6 or 7.  If that happened, it has been generally noted that baptisms were held together of more than one child, and as far as I can see, this didn't happen.  Some of that information is, of course, correct (Charlotte and Susannah in particular).  I have not, so far, found - or even searched for - William, Joseph or Thomas as they were not quoted in the letter - and as Robert (the author of the letter) was detailing the whole family, it would be strange that he left them out.  I think, therefore, they are of a different, if related, family.

With regard to the marriage of 'George and Mary', I am inclined to go with 23 Jun, 1772 and Mary Hrner, as this would fit in (barely!!) with Charlotte's birth.

I shall continue to search for the Fanny and Bessy and Nancy of the letter, plus try and gain more information on the rest of the family and I will let you know if things become clearer.

Meantime, if there are still Cravens in Rothwell, I am open to suggestion....

[BumbleB]

Many thanks for the explanation.  Sorry to have caused you some more work 

Could the two burials I posted, for Thomas and Joseph not fit the bill as to why they are not mentioned in the letter? 

[lydiaann]

Don't think so; after all, Robert mentioned Mary "died young, single".  (Which in itself would suggest she died late teens/early 20s.  After all, if she had been an infant/baby, the word 'single' wouldn't come into the equation).