Author Topic: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland  (Read 6081 times)

Offline Jules1066

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Re: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 10 February 15 09:34 GMT (UK) »
Sorry wrenside...I'm working from my phone this morning which is a nightmare as my writing ends up with typos!

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Offline JeanGris

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Re: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 10 February 15 11:29 GMT (UK) »
I've found the following document on National Archives:

Bond in 80, 26 June 1760 Thomas Devis of Wrenside, Kirkby Stephen, yeoman and Matthew...
This record is held by Cumbria Archive Centre, Kendal
Reference:    WQ/SR/384/20-23
Description:    Bond in 80, 26 June 1760 Thomas Devis of Wrenside, Kirkby Stephen, yeoman and Matthew Williamson of Winton, maltster for payment of 40 and interest to John Shaw of Stennerskew, Ravenstonedale, yeoman, on 26 June [1761].
 
promissory note, 29 May 1772 for 3 10s. due from Cyprian Hilton to Mathew Dives;
 declaration of Matthew Dives, debtor;
 notice, 10 April 1775 of intention of Mathew Dives to apply for discharge under Act for relief of Insolvent Debtors. [See WQ/SR/384/9].
Date:    1760-1775
Held by:    Cumbria Archive Centre, Kendal, not available at The National Archives

Language:    English
Context of this record
   24 - Cumbria Archive Centre, Kendal
   WQ - WESTMORLAND QUARTER SESSIONS
   Judicial Records
   WQ/SR - Sessions Rolls
   WQ/SR/384 - Appleby: Easter: Sessions roll
   WQ/SR/384/20-23 - Bond in 80, 26 June 1760 Thomas Devis of Wrenside, Kirkby Stephen, yeoman and Matthew...

As Thomas Devis is a yeoman, then there should be plenty of Manorial Court Documents regarding transactions of the Devis family. Basically Manorial Court Records cover farmers/yeoman at the time, as they were copyhold tenants to the Lord of the Manor and they could not sell, pass on to their children etc any property without the permission of the Lord of the Manor - these were recorded in Manorial Court documents and they are a valuable source of information, well worth a look - for example when the father dies, the property is recorded in these documents and often passed on to the eldest son, or in some cases to all the children of the family - naming them all. Wills are also often recorded in these books. I'm not sure if Kirkby Stephen records would be held at Kendal or Carlisle Records Office. If you do a search on National Archives for Manorial Court Records for Kirkby Stephen, this should highlight all the documents and where they are held.

If you do a google maps search and put in the postcode CA17 4HZ, this brings up the property of Wrenside, which was and still is at Wrenside, Kaber, Kirkby Stephen.
Author of  THE GRISENTHWAITE NAME THROUGH TIME
Also researching:
Affleck; Holmes; Wilkinson; Watson

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Offline JeanGris

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Re: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 10 February 15 12:02 GMT (UK) »
Author of  THE GRISENTHWAITE NAME THROUGH TIME
Also researching:
Affleck; Holmes; Wilkinson; Watson

Offline clearly

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Re: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 10 February 15 20:24 GMT (UK) »
Just before you shoot off to Carlisle Archives for the Kirkby Stephen Manor Court books, ref Jeangris's earlier post, I believe these are at Kendal Archive Centre. They were deposited by Heelis and Heelis, solicitors of Appleby and are under WDHH1 and WDHH2 in Cumbria Archives own Cascat catalogue. I believe these cover the period you are researching.
Forster Cul, Harrison Cul, Wood Cul Yks, Castley Cul & Wes, Lorimer Cul and Perth,Innis Cul, Casson, Cul, Johnston,Cul & Nfk, Carruthers Cul, Ewart Cul, Jardine Cul & Dmf, Story Cul, ONeill Cul & NI, Davis Cul & Ldn,

Offline Jules1066

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Re: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 10 February 15 20:50 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all. You've been so incredibly helpful. Identifying the right archive location is always a major challenge, and you've saved me a lot of time. I live in Sussex so will need to organise something remotely. But if I do get the chance to travel up there I certainly will. All very exciting! 

Jules

Offline JeanGris

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Re: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 08:03 GMT (UK) »
The Manorial Court Records that Clearly mentions are held at Kendal Records Office - they did not come up in the Manorial Court Records search that I carried out - and these records  also cover the following document which should be of interest to you Jules:

Kaber Birkey, Kirkby Stephen
This record is held by Cumbria Archive Centre, Kendal
Title:    Kaber Birkey, Kirkby Stephen
Reference:    WD HH/23
Date:    1815
Held by:    Cumbria Archive Centre, Kendal, not available at The National Archives
Language:    English
Context of this record
   24 - Cumbria Archive Centre, Kendal
   WD HH - HEELIS AND HEELIS, SOLICITORS, APPLEBY
   HOTHFIELD MANUSCRIPTS
   Inclosure awards and related papers
   WD HH/23 - Kaber Birkey, Kirkby Stephen

This document refers to land including the land at Kaber when it was enclosed in 1815, and there should be documents mentioning the land awarded (in acres, roods and perches) to your ancestors and also a map with all the landowner's names of that area.

However Manorial Court Records come from various sources - some from Solicitors, most from Landowners (Lords of the Manor) of that time, and the link above that I posted does refer to Kirkby Stephen Manorial Court Records held at Carlisle, and these documents have not been moved, and are still held at Carlisle. Most of the records refer to the Lowther Family of Lowther, Earls of Lonsdale under ref:  D/Lons, who were the landowners of a large part of Cumberland and Westmorland. I have found that it is often the way that Manorial Court Records are held in different Record Offices - some early Cumberland ones that I have viewed are held at Kew for example.

It would make sense to view the Manorial Court Records at both Kendal and Carlisle Record Offices.  The majority of these documents cannot be photocopied because of age, I have always obtained a camera licence (not sure if it has gone up in price) which was 8/day. I seem to think that Lowther family documents cannot be copied in any way.

Author of  THE GRISENTHWAITE NAME THROUGH TIME
Also researching:
Affleck; Holmes; Wilkinson; Watson

Offline sillgen

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Re: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 13:09 GMT (UK) »
Might be worth contacting Kirkby Stephen Historical Society.   They are quite active and have lots of info available from members.

Offline FELLSMAN

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Re: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 18 February 15 23:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi going back to Thomas Devis at Selside Forest Hall is a large sheep farm in the parish of Fawcett Forest ,Selside is the church parish High House is part of forest hall farm and is in the Shap fells area. the farm extends over 5000 acres and is in 4 parishes

Cheers Fellsman

it may be worth searching the Rawes family name website they originated in this area !!! 

Offline Jules1066

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Re: Thomas Devis & Eleanor Mattocks - Orton, Selside, Kendal Westmorland
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 19 February 15 00:54 GMT (UK) »
Information is coming in thick and fast! Thank you Fellsman.  I've just seen an image online of Forest Hall farm and read that it was purchased by Alan Bellingham in 1538 together with Gaythorne Hall in Orton. This all fits with the locations of the baptisms of Thomas and Eleanor's children. I'd jotted down something earlier on Gaythorne and must check my notes. Fantastic to see the image...the farm and surroundings have probably changed very little. Intrigued about High House....