Stalag IVB

[maggieloughran]

same story i have from my dad!
set free    from italian POW only to be captured by  Germans

Bummer or what?

 how did they survive..we need the stories...
these guys came back and DID NOT TELL their stories...   why?   were they traumatised... or did they just want to get back to a NORMAL life... 
i dont really understand it... and now i want to  gather their stories and shout it out loud,

[MaxD]

Malcolm

RD (in the list) Draffan DLI is listed in Stalag VII-A in Moosberg an der Isar Bavaria. His number suggest he might have been 16th Battalion, piece about them here http://www.durhamlightinfantry.webs.com/16dlinafricaitaly.htm

Maggie

Looks very much as if he was in more than one camp.  Kaisersteinbruch is on the other side of Austria from the Schwarzensee area.  Tracing the journeys of WW2 POWs is notoriously difficult.   There is a guide here  http://www.iwm.org.uk/research/tracing-your-family-history/prisoners-of-war/where-to-find-prisoner-of-war-records and the recent post on this thread will be of interest:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=786128.new#new
If you know which battalion of the East Yorks your father was in when captured then you could consider getting the war diaries to see what lead to the capture.

MaxD

[Malcolm33]

Malcolm

RD (in the list) Draffan DLI is listed in Stalag VII-A in Moosberg an der Isar Bavaria. His number suggest he might have been 16th Battalion, piece about them here http://www.durhamlightinfantry.webs.com/16dlinafricaitaly.htm


MaxD

    Thank you so much for this Max.    I have forwarded this information on to his grandson Richard Draffan and granddaughter Nicola.    There was another soldier in the family back in the 13th century - a certain William Wallace whose grandmother Alicia Draffan was also from Lesmahagow (my gt.grandad born there).

The initials R O in the casualty list are for 'Richard Oliver', his first names.   We had many Olivers in the family.
First name(s)   R O
Last name   Draffan
Year   1943
Capture year   1943
Service number   4466424
Rank   Lance Corporal
Rank as transcribed   L/Cpl
Regiment   Durham Light Infantry 16th Bn
Regiment as transcribed   Durham Light Infantry
Theatre of war   North Africa
Archive reference   WO 417/58
PIece description   Casualty Lists - Other Ranks 1076 - 1097
Archive   The National Archives
Record set   British Army Casualty Lists 1939-1945
Category   Armed forces & conflict
Subcategory   Second world war
Collections from   United Kingdom

[MaxD]

Then the link to 16 DLI is relevant and gives a hook to hang further enquiries from.

MaxD

[Malcolm33]

Then the link to 16 DLI is relevant and gives a hook to hang further enquiries from.

MaxD

   Yes it certainly is and many thanks again for finding his camp and the page describing what happened in North Africa.    This is he late Forties, early Fifties, with Gran (his mother) - one day with his brother and sisters and myself picnicking by the Thames.

[verrieres]

I see a link has already been added to my website Durham Light Infantry 1920-46 unfortunately its a little outdated and the website has moved to another server/company . The old site has been deleted.

https://durhamlightinfantry1920-46.weebly.com/16-dli-nafrica--italy.html

4466424 L/Cpl Draffen was captured on the 27th February 1943 during the first battle of Sedjenane, February–March 1943. The Italians were responsible for the welfare of the PoWs at this time a file at the National Archives WO21 lists those who came under their jurisdiction unfortunately in Draffens case no camps are listed for him. On liberation prisoners were asked to fill in a `liberation questionnaire`not all did this but he may have?  Hope this helps a little.

Jim

[Malcolm33]

   Thank you Jim for your explanation and directing us to your page on  the 16th Batallion of the DLI.    The story Uncle Dick told us was that they were first attacked by Italians but played dead and the Italians passed them by, but then they were picked up by a German patrol.  As it was Italian territory the Germans then handed them over to the Italians.   

    In the heat of the moment and all the action that was going on maybe he was a bit mixed up.

     Just a pity we don't know which Italian camp he was in before he escaped - only to be picked up by another German patrol.    I watched the programme about one of the escapes from Italy and have a book about another.   Awful times.

     Malcolm

[verrieres]

Malcolm,

There is another excellent DLI website which deals with only the 16th Battalion. It is run by Tom Tunney the son of an ex 16 DLI soldier and an authority on the battalion .
On Toms website there is the story of Edward Sefton who was 16th DLI and a prisoner at the same camp. Tom mentions that Sefton kept a list of his friends in the camp and your uncle is amongst them . The  links to them are here;-
http://powbooks.atspace.co.uk/page120.html

http://powbooks.atspace.co.uk/page121.html

http://powbooks.atspace.co.uk/page123.html

Page 121 mentions your uncle.

Best Wishes

Jim

[Malcolm33]

   Thank you so much Jim for these pages.   I'm passing them on to Richard Draffan and his sister Nicola, grandson and grand-daughter of Uncle Dick.   Their dad cousin Derek doesn't use a computer but is still around so he will be happy to get this info about his Dad too.

  All the best, Malcolm