Author Topic: Lockhart at Paisley, 1811  (Read 8089 times)

Offline heiserca

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Lockhart at Paisley, 1811
« on: Thursday 19 February 15 03:01 GMT (UK) »
Just discovered a marriage:  William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson, on 7 Sept 1811 at Paisley High Church.  The marriage record says William Lockhart was a soldier.

The next known record of this family was in Canada:  1831 census shows William Lockhart at the village of St. Philippe, near Montreal, with a wife and 6 daughters: four aged under 14 and two over 14 years, their names not shown.  William Lockhart's occupation was a rope-maker. 

One of the older daughters is believed to be Ellen or Helen, born about 1816-17, probably at Paisley.  Can anyone help me find a record of her birth or baptism?  She is my great-great-grandmother.  Thank you.




Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli

Offline davieboy

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Re: Lockhart at Paisley, 1811
« Reply #1 on: Friday 20 February 15 01:01 GMT (UK) »
Just discovered a marriage:  William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson, on 7 Sept 1811 at Paisley High Church.  The marriage record says William Lockhart was a soldier.

The next known record of this family was in Canada:  1831 census shows William Lockhart at the village of St. Philippe, near Montreal, with a wife and 6 daughters: four aged under 14 and two over 14 years, their names not shown.  William Lockhart's occupation was a rope-maker. 

One of the older daughters is believed to be Ellen or Helen, born about 1816-17, probably at Paisley.  Can anyone help me find a record of her birth or baptism?  She is my great-great-grandmother.  Thank you.

Searching on Scotlands People for Lockhart births between 1800-1840 shows 4  births to William Lockhart & Margaret Henderson.

Archibald Lockhart in 1812
John Lockhart in 1814
Mary Lockhart in 1819
Janet Lockhart in 1824.

There is also a Jean Lochhart birth to William Lockhart & Margaret Henderson in 1822

All births were registered at Paisley High Church parish but I couldn't find a record of Helen / Ellen anywhere in Scotland between 1812 - 1830



Ramsay, Struthers, Stark (Avondale, Lanarkshire) Haughey, Martin (Ballyrashane) Neely, Fraser (Londonderry) Hill (Anderston, Glasgow), Cranstoun, Carruthers (Dumfries) MacIndoe (Springburn & Bridgeton, Glasgow) McKay (Springburn, Glasgow) Fraser (Paisley)

Offline heiserca

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Re: Lockhart at Paisley, 1811
« Reply #2 on: Friday 20 February 15 15:02 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, davieboy.  That's the problem we keep encountering: Ellen doesn't exist!  No record of her  found before her marriage to James Clezie at Troy, New York, 1840. 

After the marriage, Ellen moved with her husband to Toronto; a child was born there in 1849, died 1852, shown in the cemetery record as "Helen Orr Clezie".  Was that really Eleanor, written by someone who couldn't spell?  Maybe Ellen's name was also Eleanor?  But Scotland's People shows no Eleanor Lockhart born in Renfrewshire between 1813-17.  I'm running out of ideas - how to find some record of my ancestor's birth? 

Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Lockhart at Paisley, 1811
« Reply #3 on: Friday 20 February 15 18:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi heiserca

This search of yours have been very long I know. It has featured on many posts here on RC. You might want to link at least some of the key threads here to this new post, otherwise people will most certainly spend time repeating many of the searches that other people have already done over the last few years.

It is a complicated and so far unresolved search for you I know  :-\

I am not sure how you have made the link for Helen to these possible parents. Hopefully you can explain a little more on why you think they are her parents.

Monica  :)
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline heiserca

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Re: Lockhart at Paisley, 1811
« Reply #4 on: Friday 20 February 15 23:26 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, MonicaL, for giving me the opportunity.  Here's what we have, step-by-step:

The first indication of Ellen’s parents came from a woman (on another site) who is doing a Lockhart one-name study.  She said Ellen's parents were William Lockhart & Margaret Ferguson, married 7 Sep 1811 at Paisley.  The marriage record said William was a soldier. 

With those names, I did searches on FamilySearch, and found further puzzle pieces:

1.  William Lockhart, born about 1789, was in the 1831 census in Canada, occupation rope-maker, at the village of St. Philippe, near Montreal, with a wife and 6 unnamed daughters.

2.  William Lockhart died about 1834, just as his wife gave birth to a son, Robert Lockhart.  We know this because William's widow, Margaret, promptly remarried to John Cloyde, a widower, who was then shown in the 1840 census at Troy, New York.  (This census doesn't name other family members but the 1850 census at Troy showed John Cloyde, wife Margaret and two of her children: Mary, born 1819 in Scotland, and Robert, born 1834 in Canada.)

3.  Ellen Lockhart married James Clezie in 1840 at Troy, New York - the same place where her mother lived with second husband John Cloyde!

4.  The 1840 census at Troy showed John Lockhart, born 1812 at Paisley, a son of William Lockhart & Margaret Henderson.  John became a soldier like his father, 1838-39 in Canada, then he lived for some time at Lansingburgh, a suburb of Troy, occupation rope-maker, again like his father.  John later moved to Chicago, as too did his mother, Margaret Henderson / Lockhart / Cloyde, after the death of her second husband.  John Lockhart and Margaret Cloyde were shown in 1860, 1870, 1880 censuses at Chicago.

5.  After Ellen Lockhart married James Clezie in 1840, this couple moved to Toronto, where their first daughter was born in 1845, named Margaret Clezie, following the traditional Scottish naming pattern: “first daughter after mother’s mother....”

6.  Ellen Lockhart and husband James Clezie also had a son, William, born 1852 at Cleveland, Ohio, so passing along the name of Ellen’s father, William Lockhart.

7.  Robert Lockhart, the youngest child of William Lockhart & Margaret Henderson, was in the 1850 census at Troy, living with his mother and step-father John Cloyde; then Robert was found in the 1860 census at Memphis, Tennessee, and the 1900 census at New Orleans, Louisiana.  These censuses confirm that Robert was born Nov 1834 in Canada, both his parents born in Scotland.

Taken together, all of this circumstantial evidence satisfies me that William Lockhart & Margaret Henderson were Ellen’s parents.  But I would be so much happier to find actual proof of Ellen's birth or baptism at Paisley!
Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Lockhart at Paisley, 1811
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 21 February 15 12:12 GMT (UK) »

After the marriage, Ellen moved with her husband to Toronto; a child was born there in 1849, died 1852, shown in the cemetery record as "Helen Orr Clezie".  Was that really Eleanor, written by someone who couldn't spell?  Maybe Ellen's name was also Eleanor?  But Scotland's People shows no Eleanor Lockhart born in Renfrewshire between 1813-17.  I'm running out of ideas - how to find some record of my ancestor's birth?


Don't worry about the variants of Helen etc... sure by now you must have come across the Scottish range of variants for first names and spelling issues too. Good guide here www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=helen

"Helen Orr Clezie" ....

Given the likely birth year of your Helen, she likely was an early born daughter (if you are on the right tracks with this family) to William and Margaret. Have you tried following up on possible mother's names for William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson to see whether a Helen Orr may feature?

Found this entry for example with a possible Henderson surname link and location https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJD-338 and that couple's parish marriage or banns entry https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQ4-2NT

Just ideas really for now...

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Lockhart at Paisley, 1811
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 21 February 15 12:43 GMT (UK) »


Searching on Scotlands People for Lockhart births between 1800-1840 shows 4  births to William Lockhart & Margaret Henderson.

Archibald Lockhart in 1812
John Lockhart in 1814
Mary Lockhart in 1819
Janet Lockhart in 1824.

There is also a Jean Lochhart birth to William Lockhart & Margaret Henderson in 1822

All births were registered at Paisley High Church parish but I couldn't find a record of Helen / Ellen anywhere in Scotland between 1812 - 1830


Have you considered viewing some of these birth/christening entries? Many christening entries included sponsor names. These can often be family members that can help with supporting clues.

You mentioned naming pattern earlier. A good guide often, although not always followed/in strict order.

From the names that Davieboy mentioned above, I am wondering if some clues may be:

Archibald Lockhart in 1812 - just after William and Margaret's marriage. Possibly William's father
John Lockhart in 1814 - Margaret's father, would link up to John Henderson, husband of Helen Orr
Mary Lockhart in 1819 - A gap in births  :-\ Maybe William's mother
Janet Lockhart in 1824.

That gap between 1814 to 1819 could be a perfect fit for a Helen Orr Lockhart, being named after Margaret's mother maybe.

I don't need to tell you that this is supposition so far. You have done amazingly well to make the links you have so far based on threads back to Scotland. I can see where you are going with this though. Would be good to find something to move you from a light pencil entry to something a little darker pencil at least  ;)

The surname of Lockhart (and variants) is not that common in Scotland (I have researched that surname before for someone else). You have many clues and signs this far pointing to Troy and one family in particular from Paisley area which is really positive.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline heiserca

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Re: Lockhart at Paisley, 1811
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 21 February 15 17:32 GMT (UK) »
Thank you again, Monica.  Helen Orr sounds like a plausible explanation for Margaret Henderson’s mother!  I do understand that it can only a supposition for now; but it would explain Ellen naming her daughter Helen Orr Clezie, after her own grandmother! 

Margaret’s husband, William Lockhart, was identified in the marriage entry as a solider, so he might have come from almost anywhere.  I found a William Lockhart baptism at Lanark on 5 June 1783, son of John Lockhart & Janet Wilson.  (John & Janet were names given to two chidlren of William Lockhart & Margaret Ferguson.)  And an army record shows that a William Lockhart born about 1789 at Lanark was a soldier in the 4th Battalion, Highland Light Infantry.  Despite the 6-year difference in age, might these two Williams be the same person?  Woe is me!  For the sake of future genealogists, we should alll have distinctive names.

Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli

Offline heiserca

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Re: Lockhart at Paisley, 1811
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 22 February 15 05:15 GMT (UK) »
The plot thickens:  Ellen from Paisley had a child born 1849, died 1852 at Toronto, shown in the cemetery record as "Helen Orr Clezie".  Was that really Eleanor?  A clue or just bad spelling? 

Now found on FamilySearch a marriage at Low Church, Paisley, 23 Oct 1784:  John Henderson and Helen Orr.

The traditional Scottish naming pattern was something like:
"First son after father's father, first daughter after mother's mother;
Second son after mother's father, second daughter after father's mother."

William Lockhart and Margaret Henderson named their second son, John, and apparently their first daughter, Ellen or Helen.  Which would fit the pattern! 

The 1784 marriage date is just about right for John Henderson & Helen Orr to be the parents of Margaret Henderson, who married William Lockhart in 1811.  Can anyone determine if they were indeed her parents?



 
Clezie (Clazie, Clezy, Clazy, Clazey, Claise, etc.), Lockhart, Heiser, Schwab, Tomon, Zarnowski, Megert, Iseli