Author Topic: Mary Ann Byrnes / Burns - foundling or orphan?  (Read 3695 times)

Offline Ferrington

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Mary Ann Byrnes / Burns - foundling or orphan?
« on: Tuesday 24 February 15 12:25 GMT (UK) »
My great, great grandmother was Mary Ann Byrnes who died in Victoria, Australia in 1878 aged 45.  Her place of birth is recorded on various certificates as Drogheda, Co Louth and Dunlear(?) Co Louth.   I think I have tracked down her arrival in Australia at age 16 in May 1848.  But I have 3 questions that I would be grateful for any help with:

1. The ship's passenger lists names Mary Ann Byrnes and Joanna Daly, both aged 16 with their "Native Place" being "Cork (Foundling)".  I know what "foundling" usually means, but I was wondering if the word might also be used for famine orphans, noting the date of her arrival. 

2. On her marriage certificate and one of her children's marriage certificates (admittedly after her death) Mary's maiden names is given as "Daly".  This might be drawing a very long bow, but I wondered if this might be a generic maiden name, like "Jane Doe", given to foundlings.  Its a bit odd for the same mistake to be made twice and her shipmate's surname was Daly.  I am confident that I have the right marriage certificate because her husband had a very distinctive surname and I know he only married once. 

3. If she was born in Co Louth, why is her native place given as Cork?  If she was orphaned, would she have been moved there for some reason?  Or was that just where the ship left from?

If anyone has run into similar issues, or can point me in the direction of information about Irish "foundlings" at around the time of the famine, I'd be very grateful to hear from you.

Thanking you in anticipation.


Offline Joney

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Re: Mary Ann Byrnes / Burns - foundling or orphan?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 25 February 15 20:02 GMT (UK) »
 It appears that there was a well-known foundling hospital in Cork which was run alongside a 'House of Industry' where the destitute could be sent. Perhaps the young women were actually in the latter, but the words 'Cork (foundling)' are being used to refer to both the associated institutions at the time ? That's the most likely explanation I can think of. It's their most recent address, so it goes down as 'native place'  even though it's nothing of the sort.

See this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=289435.msg1721180#msg1721180

which refers to the original foundling hospital and the following which has details of the workhouse that replaced it.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Cork/

When the original institution is replaced, the old name continues in use on the paperwork for the ship, I would assume. I think they really are from County Louth and must have been old enough to remember where they were from when they left the place. There is no possibility of their being termed 'foundling' at 15 or 16.

Joney

Liverpool - Ireland 
 Skerries, County Dublin - Thorn(ton),  Wicklow -  Traynor
Baltray, Co. Louth, McGuirk and  Co. Mayo -  Phillips
Isle of Man - Harrison -  Andreas and Morrison - Maughold, 
Durham, Hetton and East Rainton area  - Brown and Kennedy
Northumberland - Clough, Longbenton

Offline Ferrington

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Re: Mary Ann Byrnes / Burns - foundling or orphan?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 25 February 15 23:53 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Joney, I think your interpretation is correct.  I was thinking along the same lines but wondered if I was doing so that because I wanted to, rather than because there was a proper basis for it!  The word "Foundling" describes the place she came from - not the status.  So if she really is from Louth I need to do some digging there.

Thanks again.

Offline Joney

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Re: Mary Ann Byrnes / Burns - foundling or orphan?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 26 February 15 20:22 GMT (UK) »
Glad to help. Good luck !
There is a Dunleer in County Louth my search engine tells me, so that might be worth a try
.
My ggfather sometimes has his birthplace recorded as Drogheda and sometimes Baltray.
If the person writing down the info is familiar with Co. Louth they write ' Baltray'  because it means something to them. If they don't know the place, they say, 'Where's that ?' and when he answers 'Drogheda' , they write that instead.  The Drogheda/ Dunlear (?) variation in birthplace you have could be down to the same sort of thing.

Unless your lady can read and write, which makes it rather less likely.
Best wishes,
Joney
Liverpool - Ireland 
 Skerries, County Dublin - Thorn(ton),  Wicklow -  Traynor
Baltray, Co. Louth, McGuirk and  Co. Mayo -  Phillips
Isle of Man - Harrison -  Andreas and Morrison - Maughold, 
Durham, Hetton and East Rainton area  - Brown and Kennedy
Northumberland - Clough, Longbenton