Author Topic: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee  (Read 7903 times)

Offline Winterbloom21

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Re: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 28 February 15 20:34 GMT (UK) »
Thanks very much, Jen.     That's interesting about the port numbers - I didn't know anything about that.  I had been wondering about the route that a ship would have taken from London to Sligo.    Would it have gone up the North Sea and past Dundee going north rather than south by the English Channel?    I shall have another look at that other link in a minute.

Yes, she did remarry a Thomas  White and quite quickly, from memory - 1843.    Incidentally I found another tiny little snippet on the Marine News Section of the Lloyds Register site: Parkman - Mary Ann Melville 27.2.1835 at Sligo, slightly damaged in gale!    (Sounds like one of those 'not many dead' reports).   Other than that, I've spent the last lifetime or two wading through the Lloyds Register of shipping for 1824 and 1825 to try to find the middle Philip (my gggg grandfather who was born in 1772).   I know that his wife was a widow in the 1841 census, and he was alive in 1802 when his father named him in the will.    I picked the 1820s at random as I figured that he would have to be fairly mature to be a Captain, and have been working backwards.    No sign of him yet.
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.

Offline jennywren001

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Re: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 28 February 15 21:00 GMT (UK) »
Recap on the Phillips as they are doing my head in...

Philip Parkman and his wife Mary have the following children
Elizabeth 1768, Thomas 1770, Phillip 1772, Mary 1774 and Richard 1781

Phillip born 1772 and Jane Blanford marry 1793 and have the following children
Elizabeth 1795, Sarah 1797, Harriot 1798, Amelia 1802, Phillip 1803, Jane Blanford 1804 - so this Philip must have been alive until at least 1803 as Jane was born in 1804.

Phillip born 1803 and Elizabeth Ferguson marry 1830 at Ferry Port on Craig...they have one son James Ferguson Parkman.

Why do you think the Parkman woman in London in 1841 is Jane Blanford?

Jen


North East Scotland above the Tay...
JOLLY, Johnston,Thom, Rae, Davidson, Fielding, Sherret
FEARN, McKenzie, Stirling [brick wall], Robb, Wilson, Stott
RUSSELL, Fullerton, Christie, Cochrane, Davidson, Coutts, Easton, Scott
FRASER, Henderson, Noble, Mundie, Goodall, Thain, Neish, Moir

Offline Winterbloom21

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Re: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 28 February 15 21:25 GMT (UK) »
Re the Parkman female in London - I have Jane Parkman's death cert for 1850 in St. Pancras, in which she is described as the widow of Philip Parkman, Captain of a Merchantman.    The death is notified by Jane Sarah Serjeant, relationship given as  grand-daughter, who is my great great grandmother.

Incidentally, Philip Parkman 2 and his wife Jane Blandford actually had another daughter, whose baptism I have never been able to find.     Her name is Mary, and she is the mother of the Jane Sarah Parkman Serjeant named above.   Mary never married so her daughter used the name Parkman.

They do my head in too!
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.

Offline Winterbloom21

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Re: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 01 March 15 13:42 GMT (UK) »
Oh my poor eyes.
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.


Offline jennywren001

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Re: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 01 March 15 15:06 GMT (UK) »
Sorry, got carried away with the Ferry Port on Craig connection- you could write a book about James Parkman! Also, I forgot you have statutory records in England before 1855 so are privy to Jane's marital status in 1850. James the bank teller left a tidy sum :o.

Back to Shoreditch and Jane Sarah Parkman married to George Sergeant. I've been around the house with this lot and cannot make a connection back to the Isle of Wight Parkman's. If Mary Parkman was born in 1802 (as possibly indicated by census returns and her death) then how did her birth squeeze in between the other children's births? To be honest this group of people feel a million miles away from the family group up in Scotland.

I'd check with someone more qualified than me but in my limited experience I've never seen a master mariner described as a seaman on a census return. If that's the case this is not the same chap who is on the Mary Ann Melville...and he won't be found in Lloyds as he's not rated.

Is it possible that Mary was the husband of Philip and that Jane and Frederick were their children? Not sure of the attrition rate between births and registrations in England prior to 1837. I suspect higher than Scotland where the church was rather involved with everyday life (understatement of the year).

In the will does it say where 'middle' Philip is living?  Were any of his siblings mentioned along with their partners. Presuming Philip's brother Thomas inherited?

No idea of the province but perhaps an indication that there are more Philips Parkman 'mariner' about than tally with registered births....(looks like this one did bit smuggling)
http://dorsetsea.swgfl.org.uk/html/teachers/Database/gaol%20_register10a.htm

Did Jane Sergeant sign the death certicate of the Mary Parkman who died in Shoreditch in the 1880s?
Who signed the death certificate of the Philip Parkman who died St Pancras 1842 and what address was given?

not very helpful I'm afraid just a load more questions...
Jen



North East Scotland above the Tay...
JOLLY, Johnston,Thom, Rae, Davidson, Fielding, Sherret
FEARN, McKenzie, Stirling [brick wall], Robb, Wilson, Stott
RUSSELL, Fullerton, Christie, Cochrane, Davidson, Coutts, Easton, Scott
FRASER, Henderson, Noble, Mundie, Goodall, Thain, Neish, Moir

Offline Winterbloom21

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Re: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 01 March 15 16:39 GMT (UK) »
I'm more than happy with the questions!    I'll try and answer some of them.

Mary is, indeed, a bit of a mystery.   It has always annoyed me that I can't find her baptism as it would nail her year of birth, possibly, and clear things up.

A lot of the answers to your questions are on the various certificates.     For years, for instance, I despaired of finding out anything at all about Jane Parkman who married George Serjeant because her marriage certificate shows no father and her baptism record at St. Pancras church shows clearly that she was illegitimate and that Mary Parkman was her mother.      The marriage cert interested me because it had two names on it as witnesses that meant nothing to me.     Then, years later, ta daaaa!!  I discovered who they were.     The woman (Eliza Jane Heald) was her first cousin, daughter of Amelia Parkman Heald, one of Mary Parkman's sisters.      The other person, Benjamin Turner, was her uncle, married to another of Mary's sisters, Jane Blandford Parkman.    (The Blandford in this case is taken from her mother's maiden name.)

On Philip's death cert, the death is notified by his married sister, the Amelia Heald mentioned above. He was living at 50 Johnson Street, as was Mary, her widowed mother Jane, Jane junior who was 17 at the time and Fred, 13.  I do take your point about 'seaman' on the census, but then again maybe the census taker wasn't that interested in the finer points of marine heirarchy!    And he is referred to as a 'Gentleman' on the death cert, which I would think points more towards a retired Master than an oick sailor, wouldn't you?

Frederick is another one.    Shown as born in about 1829.   Now, Jane was born in 1825 but not baptised until St. Pancras in 1830.    So, why was Fred not christened at the same time, I wonder?    They often did job lots, in my experience.    Was he not there at the time?    It gets better.     I couldn't find him anywhere else until someone on a Scavenger Hunt helped me and he was located as living (called 'Packman'), with his auntie Amelia Heald.    And then, he changes his name to Heald, sets up home with his cousin Eliza Jane and has two children!    Couldn't find a marriage cert for them.

Yes, Jane Sergeant signed the death cert of her mother Mary in Shoreditch.    And back to the will - no it doesn't say where 'middle' Philip was living.    Philip One left his share of a sloop called the Abeona to his three sons Thomas, Philip and Roger, and there were other bequests (it went on a bit) to daughters Sarah and Mary, as well as another son, Richard.    He leaves Mary (who seems to have an illegible surname ending in 'ing') an illegible sum of money.   He leaves his daughter Sarah 'daughter of my said son Philip' the sum of £5.   Looks like she was the only child he had at the time (can't remember if she was the eldest but she must have been).  He doesn't mention her mother. 

Incidentally, it may be worth noting that throughout this will all of the people mentioned who are involved in the sea trade, and most of whom own boats are referred to as 'Mariner'.   So, perhaps the English records are less specific on this than they are in Scotland.

There are loads of Parkmans down on the Isle of Wight and on the Hampshire mainland as well.   Some were smugglers and some worked for the customs and excise.   The one I would love to find out more about was one Philip Parkman who stood trial for murder with two accomplices at the Winchester Lenten assizes in 1814.    They were all working on customs boats and it seems they got into a fight with a French sailor one night at Lymington and he got stabbed.   Parkman gave evidence against the other two.   He and one of the others were both acquitted of manslaughter and the bloke who actually did the stabbing got two years.     I suppose because the French were not flavour of the month in 1814, he got off a bit more lightly!      But I haven't a clue which Parkman this was.  I don't even know how old he was because I can't find any record that reveals this.   Grr.

Finally, whilst wading through Lloyds this afternoon I took a little break and ran PP through Ancestry again.    I found a burial of a Philip Parkman in a little village in Kent just half a mile from Ramsgate, in 1822.      This is interesting, because Jane Parkman Serjeant consistently shows her birthplace in the census as 'Ramsgate'.     Could this be the elusive Philip middle, I wonder?      If he was about 50 when he died, then it might be.    I'm trying to find out now whether there are any  parish records still in existence for this church.
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.

Offline jennywren001

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Re: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 01 March 15 19:03 GMT (UK) »
Makes a difference when you have sight of the certificates ;D 
Mary Parkman living with the Turners in 1851 - I couldn't find a marriage for Benjamin and Jane so had no way of confirming Jane's maiden name. If it had shown Mary as a dressmaker I probably would have been persuaded it was the correct pair of sisters but it said nurse! As he's the parish clerk I expected to find a marriage.

Clip from Sale of goods from 1802 - the boat is a smack 31 tons that's quite small so chances are not registered with Lloyds although you do find a few boats of this tonnage listed. The 'Sidlaw' which James Parkman is captain of in 1882 is 499 tons now that's a ship. I've got relatives on the 'Eaglet' out of Fraserburgh in 1871 and there's only three of them on board and that's 121 tons.

Sounds like Philip had accumulated some nice household goods and pleased to read that the views from the houses being auctioned were some of the best in the kingdom - real estate speak even then!

Good luck with your search I'm sure you'll find Phillip in the middle's resting place before long.
Jen


North East Scotland above the Tay...
JOLLY, Johnston,Thom, Rae, Davidson, Fielding, Sherret
FEARN, McKenzie, Stirling [brick wall], Robb, Wilson, Stott
RUSSELL, Fullerton, Christie, Cochrane, Davidson, Coutts, Easton, Scott
FRASER, Henderson, Noble, Mundie, Goodall, Thain, Neish, Moir

Offline Winterbloom21

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Re: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 01 March 15 22:07 GMT (UK) »
Jane and Benjamin got married in 1833 - I've got quite a bit on them.    I suppose Mary was helping out with the kids - they had quite a few.   And I do wonder about Mary - the way she floats about from pillar to post.    I wonder whether she might have been a difficult character in some way.    Thanks for the snippet on the Abeona.   Re your comment on 'the views from the houses being auctioned' - where did that come from? 

Thanks for all your help.  It's always good to have a fresh pair of eyes on things and it's quite amazing what can come up.      If I ever do find Phillip in the Middle, I'll let you know!

Siobhan
Toomebridge, County Antrim: Devlin
Toomebridge and Cavan:  McCormick
Glasgow, Wolverhampton, Shropshire:   Hill
Lurgan Co. Armagh:  Malone, Dumigan, McCourt, McGill
St. Pancras, and Poplar, London: Serjeant, Heald
Brookborough Co. Fermanagh:  Carmichael, Tierney
Staffordshire:  Cook
Isle of Wight:   Parkman
Warwickshire:  Kinchin
Cork: Kennedy, Ahern, Deliere

A British Islander, born Dublin of Irish/Anglo roots. Ancestors have crossed and recrossed the Irish sea in every generation.

Offline jennywren001

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Re: Melvilles - shipowners of Dundee
« Reply #26 on: Monday 02 March 15 09:41 GMT (UK) »
Re your comment on 'the views from the houses being auctioned' - where did that come from? 

14 June 1802 - Salisbury and Winchester Journal
Jen
North East Scotland above the Tay...
JOLLY, Johnston,Thom, Rae, Davidson, Fielding, Sherret
FEARN, McKenzie, Stirling [brick wall], Robb, Wilson, Stott
RUSSELL, Fullerton, Christie, Cochrane, Davidson, Coutts, Easton, Scott
FRASER, Henderson, Noble, Mundie, Goodall, Thain, Neish, Moir