Author Topic: David Gray's nine children - three missing. Newcastle.  (Read 2339 times)

Offline bibliotaphist

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David Gray's nine children - three missing. Newcastle.
« on: Monday 02 March 15 23:14 GMT (UK) »
David GRAY (born 1841 Newcastle upon Tyne) is on the 1911 census as a retired boilermaker living in Pearson Place, Jarrow, Co. Durham. I believe he died in 1918.

Even though his wife Jane née RICHARDSON had died in [I think] 1900 and he shouldn't really have completed this part of the census form, in the section on "children born alive to present marriage" David listed 9 children born, none still living by April 1911.

I think I've found six of the nine children he outlived. Can anyone help me find clues to the other three? Needless to say they all seem to have been born and died in between censuses. And there are a lot of Grays on Tyneside in the late 19th century. All of the below events took place in Newcastle.

  • Charles Gray bapt. 25th Dec 1864 Newcastle All Saints. Censuses 1871-1901. d. 21st January 1907 South Gosforth.
  • John Gray bapt. 2nd September 1866 Newcastle St Ann. d. possibly Sept Quarter 1868.
  • Peter Gray bapt. 2nd November 1868 Newcastle All Saints. d. possibly Sept Quarter 1869.
  • David Gray b. possibly June Quarter 1870. (Can't find baptism.) Census 1871. d. possibly Sept Quarter 1871.

    N.B. a gap.

  • Jane Gray b. about 1874. (Can't find baptism.) Censuses 1881-1901. m. John William DAVISON 1899. d. possibly June Quarter 1904.
  • Elizabeth Gray bapt. 8 August 1875 Newcastle St Nicholas. Census 1881. d. possibly June Quarter 1885.
  • ?
  • ?
  • ?

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: David Gray's nine children - three missing. Newcastle.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 March 15 04:38 GMT (UK) »
I had a quick look at all the usual places and, like you, I am not finding anything definite for these babies who were born and died too soon.

I did look at GRAY deaths  registered in Newcastle 1864-1894, Death age/DOB 0-10.  Time frame of 30 years and looking at the census returns I doubt if she'd had further children after that?

You have a (not so) shortlist of 229, which can be further refined.
A 'possible long shot' that I spotted is a Richard Richardson GRAY , age 0, Q4 1873.


I had a similar problem, trying to identify babies who were born and died in between census years,  on the 1911 census it said they'd had 16 children and only 6 were still living. I could identify the six still alive, which left me with 10. Luckily the surname wasn't as common as GRAY

This was my strategy, its extremely time consuming and tedious but was worth it in the end. I 'really' wanted to know about these children so was prepared to put in a lot of work,

Search Free BMD for births for that surname  in the relevant timeframe and district.

Hit the download button, you get a text file. Select all the text, right click and copy it, open a spreadsheet, click in the first cell, right click and paste. As its a csv file it automatically pastes into columns.

Delete extraneous columns (left with the quarter, year and  first name columns)

Search Free BMD for GRAY deaths in the relevant timeframe/district, Death age/DOB 0-10, download and paste them into a spreadsheet. Delete extraneous columns, leaving quarter, year, first names, age at death

Match the deaths records to the birth records (work out year of birth from age of death), paste the death record onto the same line as the matching birth record

 Remove the ones which have birth records but no matching death record - apart from the birth records of known children for this couple, leave those in for reference

Remove those where the child was alive for a census date

Highlight the cells for 'known' childrens' records.Remove records for those born too close before or after a known child's birth.

Look for distinctive forename(s)  - check FreeReg, Family search etc to see if there is a baptism and parents names to be able to discount them

Look for possible family names - I found one which had a mistranscribed variation of the mother's maiden name :-)

I was able to visit the local archives and check baptism/burial records once I had a much smaller list
I also asked the local registrar for help, they were willing to check the register if I gave them a year & quarter for the birth, plus child's name and the parents' names I was looking for. They would check and confirm/deny if it was the registration I was looking for (but obviously they would only check against what I asked, they aren't allowed to give further info, you have to buy the certificate for that)

In the end I identified 7 out of the ten children who had died prior to the 1911 census. The other three are still a mystery and the only conclusion I can come to is that perhaps they were stillborn (rather than the live births that the census form asked for). Though I found burial records for the 7 that I finally identified I couldn't find any for these other three.

I don't know how successful this sort of exercise would be in your case (or even if you would want to attempt it!). The surname Gray was very common and Newcastle Registrars won't answer queries other than to send out a standard email giving certificate costs and how to apply.



and you've probably fallen asleep trying to wade through my waffle!

Boo

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Re: David Gray's nine children - three missing. Newcastle.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 03 March 15 12:58 GMT (UK) »
Hello Boo.

That's not waffle, that's a very good idea. Thank you. In the past I've had a go at creating my own spreadsheets to reconcile FreeBMD birth and death registrations for a given surname (not this one), but I didn't know it was possible to export a set of search results directly to .tsv which speeds the whole thing up nicely.

There are 'only' 886 birth registrations for the two spellings Gray|Grey in Newcastle between 1864-1894, and 852 deaths over the period 1864-1911 with an age at death of 0-10 (discounting deaths in the earlier years where no AAD was recorded).

So it's a large task but not an impossible one if I tackle it a bit at a time, and if nothing else I can reduce the size of the pool I'm searching in. And probably find some more distant relatives at the same time: I know from looking at FreeREG that there were at least two groups of births belonging to the children of two of David Gray's brothers, which overlap the set I'm looking for.

It's occurred to me I should be able to rule out a significant number of people because they were alive during a census year.

Thanks again.

Paul

Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: David Gray's nine children - three missing. Newcastle.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 03 March 15 13:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi Paul

Pleased the post (though long!) was helpful. I do think that if we share the 'how and where' we search it can help others perhaps as much as finding particular records for them.

On the main search page for Free BMD they give a link (not particularly prominent) to say to click to get a fuller explanation of how to get the most out of your search. Being of a nosey nature, I think that may have been one of the first things I did on FreeBMD :-) Its really worth a look.

I agree that being able to download the search results is an excellent facility. Getting to the archives in the North East is a major trip for me and I only manage it about once a year, I do as much as I can like this during the year so that when I do get there I have already whittled down the 'possibles' and can then spend my time more productively checking only a few records to hopefully find what I need.


Good luck with finding more about these babies who were born and died too soon.

Boo





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Re: David Gray's nine children - three missing. Newcastle.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 03 March 15 14:12 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Boo. I agree, often tips and ideas on new search strategies are more useful in the long term than someone finding a given record for you.

That said, if anyone can find any of my missing young Grays I will be very grateful!