Author Topic: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?  (Read 24796 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 24 March 15 23:38 GMT (UK) »
There's something quite odd about John Waddell. Quite apart from apparently marrying at 15.

The 1883 death in Glasgow states plainly that John was 'about 53 years' and that his parents were John Waddell and Janet Clelland.

The 1851 census lists, at 75 Whitevale Street, John Waddell, 25, carter, with wife Ratchel, 26, daughter Ratchel, 2 and son Mathew, aged 1 month, All born in Glasgow. The 1871 lists the now much larger family at 7 Burgher Street. John is 45, dairyman and Rachel 44, and five children. Again, all are listed as born in Glasgow. (A birth in 1825/6 gives a much more likely age at marriage of about 22.)

The problem arises because the 1851 census also lists at Chryston, Cadder a family consisting of John Waddell, 50, farmer; wife Janet, 45; John, 17; Grace, 14; William, 10; Janet, 7; Catherine, 5, all born in New Monkland. By 1861 John Sr has died, and the family consists of the widowed Janet, 54, with Grace, 23; William, 20; Janet, 18; and Catherine, 15. These children exactly match the children of John Waddell and Janet Cleland, apart from John's age; he would have been 18, not 17, on census day 1851.

So there are two John Waddells in the 1851 census: one born in Glasgow 1825/6 and married to Rachel Mackay, and one born in New Monkland, son of John Waddell and Janet Cleland, still living with his parents in Cadder.

So were there two couples, both named John Waddell and Janet Clel(l)and, one of whom had a son John in Glasgow in 1825/6, and the other of whom had a son John in New Monkland in 1832?

Or did John Waddell and Janet Cleland have a son John, born in Glasgow before their marriage, and a second son John, born in New Monkland after their marriage? And if so why was he not living with his parents and siblings in 1841?

Or did William Waddell, son of John Waddell and Rachel Mackay, give the wrong names for his grandparents when he registered his father's death, and if so why did he think they were John Waddell and Janet Clelland?

Or is there some other explanation?

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Maggiemay64

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Re: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 29 March 15 19:51 BST (UK) »
I read and understood your reasoning in regards to John Waddell so decided to look again at
Scotlands People (spelling Clel(l)and) both ways. Only found 1 marriage for John Waddell and Janet Clel(l)and and also widened my timeline regarding the birth of John but it has not brought up anyone other than John born 1832 New Monkland with said parents.Looking back at my notes I too thought it odd marrying so young. I did have doubts but decided that Scotlands People were the most reliable source. IF the parentage is wrong on the death certificate I am not sure how that could be resolved. A point I would make is Janet emigrated in 1862, William in 1863 not sure about the others but John was not on the 1861 cencus with the rest of the family. If you can help I would be most grateful.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 29 March 15 20:05 BST (UK) »
Thanks, Maggiemay. I am mystified by this too. However I decided to send off for the death certificate of the John Waddell who died in New Zealand in 1895 aged 63 to see what it might tell me. I'll let you know when it arrives.

In the meantime it would be interesting to find the records of the family's travel to New Zealand.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Janette

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Re: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 29 March 15 21:38 BST (UK) »
I wonder if this is the marriage

1865/4235   Jane    McLellan to   John    Waddell

If they were illiterate maybe her surname was written as it sounded

Cheers Janette

My mistake


Offline Janette

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Re: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 29 March 15 21:43 BST (UK) »
This couple had the following children

1865/26212   Waddell    Janet /Jane   /John   
1866/26177   Waddell    Johan /Jane/John   
1868/12999   Waddell    John Nesbit /Jane   /John   
1871/14085   Waddell    Nesbit /Jane   /John
1873/21143   Waddell    James Newton /Jane   /John   
1875/9939    Waddell    Ida /Jane   /John

Cheers Janette

My mistake again

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?
« Reply #23 on: Monday 30 March 15 00:09 BST (UK) »
Well, the death certificate just arrived and it doesn't help! According to that, the John W who died in NZ in 1895 was a butcher, born in Glasgow, father unknown, stone mason, mother Sophia Waddell.

So I still have no explanation for the two John Waddells in the 1851 census.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Maggiemay64

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Re: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 02 April 15 00:40 BST (UK) »
I had a look at some of my notes and found the name of the ship was Silistria which Janet Waddell And William Lockhart Gray sailed .They left from the Clyde on the 5/october1861 and landed New Zealand10/December 1861.I was given this information from a descendant of Janet Waddell and it.. can be seen in Otago Times (Papers Past). I cant  find the name or date of the ship William sailed on but there is an article in The Otago Times(Papers Past) (21/August1880)which you may find interesting and gives the year he moved to New Zealand and what he got up to. Im sorry I cant seem to be able to paste the link to these articles in this post.As an aside,John Waddell sen.died 1851-1854 and I note his son John(if he is) did not produce any children in those years but did afterwards! Hope this helps

Offline Janette

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Re: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 02 April 15 01:01 BST (UK) »
Here is the passenger list for the Silistria

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ourstuff/Silistra1862.htm

Cheers Janette

Offline Maggiemay64

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Re: Did all the Waddells emigrate to New Zealand?
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 02 April 15 09:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks very much for the passenger list,it gives the correct date of arrival  whereas the copy from  the Otago Times does not.