Thomas Sunter/Clementina Glasgow/Brechin Scotland 1848

[Forfarian]

If he was illegitimate and known all his life by his mother's surname, the chances are that you won't find out the name of his father.

However if he knew his father's name, but wasn't known by it, he might have put it on his marriage certificate.

There are two avenues to investigate which might possibly tell you his father's name

One is the records of the Kirk Session of the parish where his mother lived. If the Session got wind of an unmarried pregnancy among their flock, they would summon the woman to one of their meetings and ask her to name the father. If she did so, they would then summon him too. The object being to get the father to admit paternity so that he could be made to pay for the child's maintenance so that it would not become a charge on the parish. However Ev's post above suggests that the Sunter family may have pulled the wool over the eyes of the Kirk Session, so there may be nothing useful to find. The Kirk Session records are available in digital form in the National Records of Scotland, and in archives in Glasgow, Aberdeen, Inverness and some other places.

If either the mother or the child did apply to the parish, the parochial board would also have made strenuous efforts to find the father and make him pay maintenance. However if the Sunter family paid for Thomas' upbringing without applying to the parochial board, their records too would not contain anything useful.

[Scottleneveu]

Thank you for explaining it I saw that Thomas' mother Elizabeth married a guy with the surname Tanner, and I think that Thomas had a son named Robert Tanner Sunter. I wonder if there was any connection there? :/

[DonM]

Yes Robert was a son, he was the informant on his father's death registration.

Elizabeth Paterson was his first wife and Clementina Wright his second, according to Robert.

Don

[Rosinish]

However if he knew his father's name, but wasn't known by it, he might have put it on his marriage certificate.

I have an example of this from a tree a done a few yrs ago for someone.
As Forfarian mentioned...............in the box for parents names on the marriage cert. the fathers name was written but with the words "Reputed Father"
This however would still leave you a brick short of a brick wall as his only identity is a name which is only "reputed" 

Annie

[Scottleneveu]

Hello again I've just been reading over the information that you've given me, when you said it said 'reputed father' is that all it said? How would I find out? Because on another line I have, somebody else has 'reputed father' on their marriage certificate too,  but it also has a surname after the words reputed father...if you get what I mean? Sorry to drag this up again
Scott

[Forfarian]

when you said it said 'reputed father' is that all it said?

I think think ammack was talking about a certificate for someone in her family, not about your Thomas' marriage certificate.

If Thomas knew his father's name, the certificate might list his father as "xxx yyy (reputed father)". It would not simply say, "reputed father" with no name. If Thomas did not supply a name for his father, that part of the certificate would be left blank.

How would I find out?

You would look at the certificate which you would have obtained from Scotland's People.

[Scottleneveu]

Yes, I've created an account on scotlands people, but when I try and search a birth for him it always comes back with no matches? Perhaps there isn't one?
Scott

[Rosinish]

Yes, I've created an account on scotlands people, but when I try and search a birth for him it always comes back with no matches?

Before searching for a birth you need to know who his parent(s) was/were
To establish this you need either his marriage or death cert.
A marriage cert. is always favoured as it is the word of the person.

His marriage to Clementina is available on SP in 1884 County (Angus), District (Brechin)

There are no births pre 1855 for a Thomas Sunter (in the time frame you are searching) but there are 2 entries 1855 - 1858 "All Records" which....... if one is him, suggests he is younger than thought to be & born outside County of Angus 

I have included an example for an entry with "Reputed Father"

Annie

[DonM]

On his death Registration his mother was Elizabeth (domestic servant), no father listed.

And, on his marriage registration to Clementina he states he is a widower, the son of Thomas Sunter (joiner, journeyman) deceased and Elizabeth Sunter, ms Sunter.

His age at the time of marriage suggests he was born in 1848. In the 1891 Census he claims he was born in Glasgow. A search within Glasgow yields nothing a search within Scotland 1845-1850 yields one. Thomas to William Sunter and Elizabeth Pebbles in 1848 (Kilconquhar, Fife).  I found nothing more on this Thomas. However, there are holes in the OPR's there could be others unrecorded.

However, in the 1851 Census, there is only one Thomas that fits the age, he is 3, the Grandson of William Sunter a Weaver living in Kilconquhar, Fife along with his wife Elizabeth and their family. This Thomas is identified as being born in Glasgow.  There is also a son Thomas but he is only 14 so it can't be the father...well I hope not. I looked for a daughter named Elizabeth but found none, there is a daughter named Hellen age 21 living with the family and listed as being unmarried, but the rest would be too young.

In 1861 Thomas is 12, still with the family, same Parish, same place of birth and but elevated to a son (not uncommon).

1871 - he doesn't appear to be in Scotland.

There is no Elizabeth Sunter in the 1851 Census that fits the description that I found in fact there is only 4 in all of Scotland who could be the mother albeit on the far side of 40.

Thomas' first wife Elizabeth Paterson died in Brechin in 1883.

In the the 1891 Census children were:
Thomas b England (age 17)
Alexander b Brechin
William b England
Jessie b Boness

Since he married Clementina in 1884 these are her children with the possible exception of Elizabeth.
Elizabeth
Andrew
May
Isabella
Robert 2 mo circa 1890/91

There could have been more children born after 1891.

It is possible Thomas married Paterson in England as there is no marriage in Scotland and that the first child was born there.  If found, it may hold more clues as to his origin.

Don