Author Topic: Fleur-de-lis  (Read 2235 times)

Offline PEM07

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Fleur-de-lis
« on: Saturday 14 March 15 01:04 GMT (UK) »
This English made pocket watch #16596 by William Bent dates to 1879.
I have never previously encountered Fleur-de-lis hands, on a William Bent watch.
Fleur-de-lis to me, is usually associated in heraldry with the French Crown.
Is there some political or historical reason that this watch was fitted with Fleur-de-lis hands in 1879?
Or do you think they have been fitted as replacements during a later restoration of the watch?
I would appreciate your thoughts.
Bkm: BIRCH
Ess: DAWKINS, SKINGLEY
Ham: MARSTON, SHUTE
Hrt: WORRAL
Hun: BROWNING, DAY
Lan: CHEW
Lnd: BLAKESLEY
Mdx: BENT, DODD, MARSTON, WHITLOCK
Sry: OAKMAN
Sts: ELLIS, KIDWELL, REDFERN, SHERWIN

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Offline Billyblue

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Re: Fleur-de-lis
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 14 March 15 02:24 GMT (UK) »
Were they of Huguenot extraction by any chance?
Might explain it.

Dawn M
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);† Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)

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Offline PEM07

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Re: Fleur-de-lis
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 14 March 15 04:20 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your reply.
Now that is an interesting thought!
Bkm: BIRCH
Ess: DAWKINS, SKINGLEY
Ham: MARSTON, SHUTE
Hrt: WORRAL
Hun: BROWNING, DAY
Lan: CHEW
Lnd: BLAKESLEY
Mdx: BENT, DODD, MARSTON, WHITLOCK
Sry: OAKMAN
Sts: ELLIS, KIDWELL, REDFERN, SHERWIN

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Fleur-de-lis
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 14 March 15 09:13 GMT (UK) »
Are you sure it's fleur-de-lys hands and not Prince of Wales feathers?
Can you post a picture?


Another thought?
Several British Army Regiments used the Fleur-de-Lys as their emblem? 63rd and 59th Regiments of Foot; maybe more?
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline PEM07

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Re: Fleur-de-lis
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 14 March 15 10:44 GMT (UK) »
Prince of Wales feathers, now that's an interesting thought, but I don't think so.
Tried to post a picture without luck. Will try again when I can get on my PC.
Your second thought raises my same question...
When and why did British regiments adopt the Fleur-de-lis?
Thanks for your input.
Bkm: BIRCH
Ess: DAWKINS, SKINGLEY
Ham: MARSTON, SHUTE
Hrt: WORRAL
Hun: BROWNING, DAY
Lan: CHEW
Lnd: BLAKESLEY
Mdx: BENT, DODD, MARSTON, WHITLOCK
Sry: OAKMAN
Sts: ELLIS, KIDWELL, REDFERN, SHERWIN

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Fleur-de-lis
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 14 March 15 11:14 GMT (UK) »
63rd Regiment
The regimentís officers wore a French fleur-de-lys badge on their coat-tails before 1855. Some sources state that this was awarded in 1815 for its part in the capture of Guadaloupe five years earlier, whilst others state it was first worn in 1759.
Some say it commemorates the capture of French regimental colours by the 63rd Regiment of Foot, during the Invasion of Martinique in 1759.
In 1881 the British Army was re-organised and the 63rd Regiment of Foot became the 1st Battalion of the Manchester Regiment. This new regiment continued to use the fleur-de lys in many ways. They used it on their uniform, displayed it on the plates they ate from and carved it into Cap badge and objects they used to represent them.

82nd Regiment
In 1793, at the start of the French Revolutionary War, the 82nd Regiment of Foot was raised at Stamford, Lincolnshire from Volunteers. Its first Colonel, Charles Leigh, was a gentleman of the household of the Prince of Wales, and accordingly the Regiment became known as the Prince of Wales's Volunteers and took the Prince's three-feathered plume as it's badge.


Also, the symbol is also often used on a compass rose to mark the north direction, a tradition started by Flavio Gioja, a Neapolitan mariner of the 14th century.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline PEM07

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Re: Fleur-de-lis
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 14 March 15 11:46 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much for the wealth of information you have provided on the 63rd and 82nd. I am beginning to understand now the complexities of history and that there are no easy answers. Sure gives food for thought though.
Very interesting. Much appreciated. Thanks
Bkm: BIRCH
Ess: DAWKINS, SKINGLEY
Ham: MARSTON, SHUTE
Hrt: WORRAL
Hun: BROWNING, DAY
Lan: CHEW
Lnd: BLAKESLEY
Mdx: BENT, DODD, MARSTON, WHITLOCK
Sry: OAKMAN
Sts: ELLIS, KIDWELL, REDFERN, SHERWIN