Author Topic: Welsh gravestone translation and advice please  (Read 4940 times)

Offline fisherj

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Welsh gravestone translation and advice please
« on: Monday 16 March 15 15:16 GMT (UK) »
Can anyone please help me with a translation of the first three words on the gravestone, "Hauwyd Goleuni i'r Cyfiawn"?  I understand the rest of the inscription.

Also - how usual do you think is it to have an engraving of a bible on a gravestone?  I have not seen this before so am wondering whether this relative might have been a lay preacher or whatever.  He was an ag lab by trade. 

The grave is in Llanon, between Aberaeron and Aberystwyth.  I could not see any other graves with a bible engraved.  I am curious because another part of my family were all masons and their graves have the symbol specific to their trade, a square and compass.

Many thanks
Woodmancote:  Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:  Fisher
Eastcombe:  Winstone
Chalford:  Lambert
Newent:  Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:  Fowler; Selman
Olveston:  Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:  Davies

Offline ..claire..

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Re: Welsh gravestone translation and advice please
« Reply #1 on: Monday 16 March 15 23:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I think the quote is from the Bible, try G**gling it ~ lots of Bible references.

One translation " There is sprung up a light for the Righteous "

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=heERUQ0dLLAC&pg=RA10-PA6-IA6&dq=%22Hauwyd+Goleuni+i%27r+Cyfiawn&hl=en&sa=X&ei=I2cHVerdEair7Ab4vYCYAQ&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22Hauwyd%20Goleuni%20i'r%20Cyfiawn&f=false

claire
Luce, Tippett , Thomson, Dolling ~ Devon & Cornwall
Mocquard ~ London, France
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Offline sarah

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Re: Welsh gravestone translation and advice please
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 09:45 GMT (UK) »
I do not know what Hauwyd is but Light the Righteous are the last few words.

Sarah :)
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Offline Hinso

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Re: Welsh gravestone translation and advice please
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 11:24 GMT (UK) »
claire.t is correct but the translation seems to be a bit loose

hauwyd comes from hau=to sow

hauwyd=was sown
Horne - Oxfordshire, Lincolnshire
James - Grosmont (Monmouthshire)
Jones, Thomas, Davies - Carmarthenshire, Glamorgan
Price - Monmouthshire, Glamorgan
Prosser - Breconshire
Prossl - Bohemia, London
Rees - Carmarthenshire, Monmouthshire, Illinois
Walter - Somerset, Kansas, Queensland, Western Australia


Offline fisherj

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Re: Welsh gravestone translation and advice please
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 13:40 GMT (UK) »
Many many thanks - the fact that this is a quotation from the Bible is really very helpful.  I understand it now.

Just one more thing then, I am still wondering whether there could be any significance in the engraving of a bible on the grave.  How unusual is that?
Woodmancote:  Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:  Fisher
Eastcombe:  Winstone
Chalford:  Lambert
Newent:  Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:  Fowler; Selman
Olveston:  Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:  Davies

Offline Hinso

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Re: Welsh gravestone translation and advice please
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 17:21 GMT (UK) »
If other ancestors were masons they may have used their skills in a direct way on the gravestone.

Have you looked at Welsh newspapers at the National Library of Wales  (http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/home ) for the person in the grave. Nonconformist preachers or deacons may have been insignificant ag labs, miners, etc in the censuses but figured prominently in the community.
Horne - Oxfordshire, Lincolnshire
James - Grosmont (Monmouthshire)
Jones, Thomas, Davies - Carmarthenshire, Glamorgan
Price - Monmouthshire, Glamorgan
Prosser - Breconshire
Prossl - Bohemia, London
Rees - Carmarthenshire, Monmouthshire, Illinois
Walter - Somerset, Kansas, Queensland, Western Australia

Offline fisherj

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Re: Welsh gravestone translation and advice please
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 19:19 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for that idea - but unfortunately I could not find anything.
Regards 
Woodmancote:  Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:  Fisher
Eastcombe:  Winstone
Chalford:  Lambert
Newent:  Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:  Fowler; Selman
Olveston:  Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:  Davies

Offline Mair

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Re: Welsh gravestone translation and advice please
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 21:40 GMT (UK) »
The set square and compass are symbols of Freemasonry
http://www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com/square-and-compasses.html

having sown the light to the Righteous

may be another translation of the quote to fit within the stylised gravestone of a local  preacher


M
Rowland/s- Hughes -Caernarfornshire/Stockport Cheshire
Barnicoat - Cornwall Lancashire Stockport,Cheshire
Jones (!) - Caernarvonshire,NWales  USA - Iowa, Wisconsin, S Dakota.
Thomas - Anglesey, USA Iowa, Oregon

Offline fisherj

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Re: Welsh gravestone translation and advice please
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 17 March 15 23:04 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for that link, M. 

Some generations and brothers in the Winstone line of my family were both stone masons, and, by the use of this symbol on their graves, it looks like they were also freemasons. 

They were not related to the part of my family whose gravestone in Llanon I am querying - that is until my grandfather met my grandmother much later!

In english, your translation does flow better with the rest of the inscription than the quote from the Psalms. 

After the words "Hauwyd Goleuni i'r Cyfiawn",there is a comma, then, after the engraving of a Bible, it says "er serchus gof am David Williams...."  which I believe is "in loving memory of David Williams...."

(I did try to attach a photo with my post but unfortunately couldn't do it.)

Do you think I am reading something into their having a Bible on the grave plus these words.  It looks just like a closed, old welsh family bible.  I am only guessing that David Williams might have had a role in the church based on this gravestone.  The burial is at the parish church. 

But maybe I have not seen enough graveyards!  I have seen loads of angels!! ::)  His daughter was a female servant to the vicar at the time of the census in 1851 but that doesn't mean anything in itself of course.

Many many thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.  I have struggled over this translation before realising that I could ask fellow Rootschatters for their help on this. 

Thank you everyone.




Woodmancote:  Hobbs; Davison
Bisley:  Fisher
Eastcombe:  Winstone
Chalford:  Lambert
Newent:  Bowkett
Llangurig: Owen; Jones
Llangurig & Bedlinog: Rees
Llanonn: Williams
Charfield:  Fowler; Selman
Olveston:  Fisher
Batheaston: Fisher
Andover, Hurstbourne, Woodcutt, Shinfield: Farmer & Tanner
Alresford: Sprangle; Hack
Martletwy & Llangwig:  Davies