Alexander Black of Gidea Hall, m Alice Waynman 1814

[hurworth]

I've been looking at Alexander Black of Gidea Hall and trying to work out who he is.  He and Neil Black are named as trustees on a Scottish will.  I gather they were Linen Merchants in Bread St, Cheapside. 

I can see that he had two daughters, Adelaide and Anne.  Their marriages are in Burkes Peerage.

I am trying to work out who the Alexander Black is who married the daughter of James Waynman of Colchester in 1814 at Allhallows in Bread St (see the link below), or is there some mistake about who the mother of Adelaide and Anne was - or is it another Alexander Black in the same family?

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=5ys8AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=alex+black+gidea+hall+alice&source=bl&ots=hahCUnlQVA&sig=I15dguqDrX41-EU53ETnvkXa0s4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=R5wTVb2DPOKzmAX_iYL4CA&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=alex%20black%20gidea%20hall%20alice&f=false

It appears that Neil Black and James Waynman were witnesses at the wedding.

Many thanks for any ideas.

[olleym]

Gidea Hall was a building in Gidea Park, Essex.
There is no All Hallows church in Colchester, the marriage actually took place in The city of London, and Alexander was OTP. Maybe Gidea Hall  was his family seat or weekend retreat.
Alice actually came from Wivenhoe just outside Colchester.

Mark

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Looking at the original it does look like the same Alexander Black.
Alexander Black of Bread St All Hallows bachelor and Alice Waynman of Wivenhoe esses
Witnesses Neil Black Bread St and James Blyth Waynman of Castle St Finsbury Square.

There is a Will for Neil Black of Bread St 1832 PPC which might be of interest to you.He was buried at All Hallows  22.5.1832  age 69.
There's also this
Gidea Hall descended like Newbury in Ilford (fn. 121) until 1802, when Richard Benyon, grandson of the purchaser, sold it to Alexander Black (d. 1835). (fn. 122) In 1846 Alice Black, Alexander's widow, was holding the Gidea Hall estate, then comprising 742 a. (fn. 123) She died in 1871. (fn. 124) The estate had previously been settled on Black's two daughters and their husbands: Anne and William Neave, and Adelaide and Alfred Douglas Hamilton. (fn. 125) After Mrs. Black's death the estate was put on the market with a view to development, and in 1883 the main part of it, comprising some 500 a., was bought by the Lands Allotment Co., .

Alice was born 1783 and James Blyth Waynman 1780 in Colchester according to their death registrations.

Ciderdrinker

[hurworth]

Thank you Mark and Ciderdrinker.

On the website www.thepeerage.com it says Alexander Black married an Alice Pearson in 1802, and yet it says their daughters were apparently born in 1815 and 1818.   There could be an error there, unless he did marry an Alice Pearson first and then married this Alice in 1814.

Thank you for the will details.   I didn't have an age for Neil, so that is helpful.  Where would I go for his will please?

[olleym]

Or 2 Alexander Black's.

Mark

[hurworth]

It says here that Alexander Black was a Napoleonic war profiteer.

http://www.havering.gov.uk/Documents/Transport-and-Streets/PlaceNamesofHavering.pdf

I have been wondering whether there could be two Alexander Blacks. It does seem odd for Alexander to supposedly marry in 1802 to Alice Pearson,  and then suddenly have two daughters more than a decade later.

And here is an announcement of the marriage in 1802 of Mr A Black of Leadenhall St, London, to Miss Pearson of Layer de la Hay.
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=5G03AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA367&lpg=PA367&dq=pearson+layer+de+la+hay&source=bl&ots=6V8BKEWn_6&sig=zZ9BpKkLPkiJE3tmPRDOjAa84rQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=S4QUVf_XKMLRmwWV4oKoCA&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=pearson%20layer%20de%20la%20hay&f=false

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
Neil Black's Will is on Ancestry if you have it or on the National Archives site.
Here's a brief summary.
Neil Black merchant of Bread St made in 1832 to dispose of all my property except that in Scotland for which I will make a separate Will.
Nephew Rev Davis Black of Kilopernie? in county of Perth £5
Nephew John Young's widow  Elizabeth Young of Perth £3
Mrs Macvicar? widow of Davis Macvicar merchant of Perth £3
To John Macvicar of Dirfield Stirling £100 and the same to his sister Laura?.To their brother Neil of Euston House London £100
Hester Black of  Glenrose Scotland  £19 19 s and her 3 sisters the sum of 19 guineas
To their aunt Elizabeth Black the same.
To my cousin Alexander Black of Gidea Hall Essex £5 to buy ? for his wife.His daughters Ann and Adelaide £5 for a ring
To Thomas foster my clerk £10
Mrs Sarah Locket? £10 servant ,£5 Sarah Gosling
Executors William FFortescue? Black my partner Bread St and Neil Mcvicar and they are to have £2000 to pay annuities to-
Elizabeth Black the widow of my brother Thomas Black and her daughter Agnes Black and daughter Jessie FFortescue? Black
Agnes Black of Ann St Edinburgh widow an annuity (not sure if from the same or different £2000)Then her daughter Jane Mcvicar Black
Nephew William FF? Black premises in Mile End Essex
Then there's a lot about the business,where the money from the annuities is to come from and holding property in trust for the recipients and how William FF? Black is to deal with Neil's business partners.
It was proven in London 13.6.1832.
It does run to several pages and the writing is quite difficult to read .

Possible baptism for Neil Black at Perth 30.5.1762 born 5 Jan 1764 to David Black and Jean Mc vicar (familysearch)His elder brother Neil born 23 May 1762 bapt 30th May must have died.
Other children Bridget 6.5.1753,Thomas 19.1.1755,Jean 30.6.1757,Lillias 10.10.1758,Elizabeth 8.3.1760 and David 23.5.1762.
Brother Thomas and his wife Elizabeth had the following children at Perth-Agnes 17.9.1793,David 10.1.1795,William Fechney Black 7.6.1797,Thomas 4.10.1799,Jean Mcvicar Black 23.5.1803 and Janet Fechney Black 12 .2.1809.

London Lives website  has a fire insurance policy for Alexander Black of Bread St in 1779 so he must have been older than Neil.


Ciderdrinker

[hurworth]

Thank you very much Ciderdrinker.   A Neil MacVicar is also a trustee on the will I am looking at, and he is related by marriage to the family, so the connection is somewhere there I think.

According to the Chelmsford Chronicle and Essex Standard Alexander Black died in 1835 in his 80th year of age.  If it was him who married Alice Waynman then he was almost 60 when he married.

In 1842 William Fechney Black is a linen factor in Bread St, so Fechney is probably the hard to read name (and that fits with the baptisms you found).

The Alexander Black of Leadenhall St who married Alice Pearson in 1802 was a bookseller, Stationer, chart seller and printer.  http://bookhistory.blogspot.co.nz/2007/01/london-1775-1800-b.html 

I really do think that there has been confusion around two Alexander Blacks marrying an Alice, and Alice Waynman was the mother of Ann Elizabeth and Adelaide.

I've found more about Neil Black's parents - Rev David Black and Jean MacVicar (daughter of Rev Neil MacVicar) of Perth here:
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=X00NAAAAYAAJ&pg=PR5&lpg=PR5&dq=david+black+jean+macvicar+perth&source=bl&ots=1-YOB4XIUD&sig=DjQTRZfIS2LlDFlRDYaiz4zCpk8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ItIVVdulIcW3mwWYwoHICA&ved=0CCkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=david%20black%20jean%20macvicar%20perth&f=false

And here is a sampler in the Philadelphia Museum of Art which was embroidered by their daughter "Betty".
http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/122107.html?mulR=233303192%7C5

[hurworth]

I'm still not certain of Alexander Black's ancestry but quite coincidentally come across the surname Faichney in Forgandenny.   So I've tried this alternate spelling.

Name    Helen Faichney
Gender    Female
Christening Date    15 Aug 1779
Christening Place    Dunfermline Associate Session, Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Birth Date    13 Aug 1779
Father's Name    James Faichney
Mother's Name    Janet Black


I think Andrew Black who was Comptroller of Customs at Anstruther Easter in the late 18th century could also be related to the family.


I also found this:
http://www.forgottenbooks.com/readbook_text/The_Presbytery_of_Perth_1000825662/289

"Mr James Faichney was ordained 21st Oct., 1712. He seems to have been a native of Perth, as an entry in the [Session Record says that " on Sabbath, the 3d April, 1737, there was no sermon, the minister being at Perth at the death of his mother. In 1717, he married Elizabeth Richardson; and seven children, born to them, are registered in the Parochial Record. His descendants rose to the highest honours in Perth " two of them having attained to the Provost's chair. Mrs Faichney of Ardargie, in the Parish of Forgandenny, was a lineal descendant; also Mr David Black, late minister of Kilspindie, and several others still alive."