Need advise regarding a record on the McGeorge family from Galloway

[McGeorgeGalloway]

My wife is descendant from the McGeorge family in Galloway, Scotland (Parton, village).

I found that link talking about the "Origin" of the surname:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MCGEORGE/2001-05/0989133168

I says that:
"The name, at an early period spelt and pronounced
 Macjore, appears in that form on of the tombstone of one of the families
 is interesting as showing the change in the writing of the name in the same
 family. It is as follows "John Macjore in Cartine died 28 Feb 1691, age 80:
 also John McGeorge of Cocklick his son. He died 17th June 1726 aged 69"….."
 "The late Mr Brydson , the author of an excellent book on heraldry, is of
 opinion that the family of Macgeorge was descended from the Irish Clan of
 MacIoris which had settled, he says at an early period, in Galloway and
 which, in time of Henry II was reckoned among the great families of
 Ireland. This confirmed by the manner in which the name at an early period
 was pronounced and spelt in Galloway…." "


My question is, is it an "urban legend" or a reliable source? I mean how much percentagewise should  believe that the McGeorge family really did originate from the Clan of MacIoris?

Also, later it says that the MacIoris Clan are descendants from the De Bermengham family, and that simply seems to good to be true. What are the odds this information is actually correct? Is it based on serious research or is it, pardon me, baseless speculations?

The McGeorges in our family were poor coal miners and stone masons from Galloway, and being descendants from landlords who are descendants from one of the most powerful families in Ireland? And that Irish family to be descendants from the De Bermenghams? How seriously should I take this information? How much should I believe it?

I really hope somebody could give me their opinion/assessment.

[GR2]

Black's "The Surnames of Scotland", says of McGeorge that it is a later form of McJarrow (various spellings). He also mentions the inscription from Urr and says there were people of the same name in Ayrshire too. He says that it is derived from the same word as the name Dewar. The answer, as always, is to work backwards as far as you can go and see where you arrive.

Is there something especially aristocratic about your wife which makes you consider the blue-blooded origin very likely? Be careful how you answer that.

[Ruskie]

Welcome to rootschat.

I would treat that with a grain of salt. There are likely to be several roots for origins of surnames so your McGeorges may be a different line. It could be that your surname was originally George for example and the Mc was added to align it with the Clan name in order to appear more important.(this is unlikely but just an example of what I am trying to get across).

Agree with GR2 - just research as far back as you can using the traditional methods rather than trying to fit your family name into someone's interpretation of the origin of the surname.

In the end, if you can't find any documentary evidence then making that connection would all just be assumption and guesswork anyway.

[Skoosh]

Trotter's "Galloway Gossip" 1901, has the origin of this name as from MacJore, pronounced MacYore or MaJore, genteel versions of the name are McGeorge, McKeur or Ure.  Looks as if the name has a Gaelic origin and George aint it!

Great book if you can find a copy.

Skoosh.

[McGeorgeGalloway]

Skoosh - Yes, and I think that part is documented.

However, what do you think of the Irish origin and the de Bermigham origin theory?

[McGeorgeGalloway]

Ruskie - The thing is, when you look at the distribution of the McGeorge family in the 19th century it seems like 99% of them were in Galloway and very close to each other. That makes me believe the single origin theory.

The ancestry from the McJore/McYore are also documented, and even though I can't count many generations back, so far it all makes perfect sense.

However, it is before the McJore which I find too good to be true. The descent from a family which is descent from the de Berminghams, based on what would that appear? I mean it seems to be entirely based on the name similarity principle. McPheoris becoming McYoris. But how certain can such a theory be?

[McGeorgeGalloway]

GR2 - Well, we know that the McGeorge family used to own lands in Galloway, and that is why in the 19th century they were concentrated exclusively in Galloway. The evolution of MacJoris/MacYoris into McGeorge is also well documented. All good so far.

However, the theory goes ahead to say that the MacJoris/MacYoris clan are in fact a branch of a powerful Irish clan MacFioris , which in tern descend from the de Bermingham family.

Now the connection between MacFioris and MacJoris is made on the base of name similarity, but there are many similar names which are not descended from each other! So where does that theory come from? What else is it based on? How reliable is it?

[Skoosh]

I take it this is the De Bermingham who defeated King Edward Bruce at Faughart?

Skoosh.

[McGeorgeGalloway]

Skoosh - Yes, one of them anyway. The De Birmingham in Ireland assimilated and became MacFioris. After few generations of marrying Irish they became Irish. They held the Baron Athenry title.

The thing is, as always even with Noble homes, you have many kids, and the youngest ones first devolve to gentry, they move somewhere else, then peasants...

My problem is I don't know based on what did they connect the MacFioris and MacJoris. Is it really enough to base a connection on name only?

MacJoris became McGeorge, that is documented. De Birmingham became MacFioris, that is documented. But the connection between MacFioris and MacJoris, a branch of the MacFioris  moving to Galloway and becoming MacFioris... that is where my questions and doubts are. So many names sound similar and I just find it too little to go with.