Author Topic: John Dwyer b Limerick 1766 d Australia 1844  (Read 7014 times)

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: John Dwyer b Limerick 1766 d Australia 1844
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 05 November 15 02:04 GMT (UK) »
From the online convict index at NSW State Records I can see:


24 Oct 1809 Conditional Pardon for a John DWYER, and that it was torn up 11 Oct 1821 page 47 of reel 771
29 Feb 1812 Conditional Pardon for a John DWYER, ex Atlas 1802 page 56 of reel 774
No date, Free Pardon for a John DWYER, who arrived in Sydney 1802 page 76 of reel 601
No date, Conditional Pardon for a John DWYER page 132 and 133 reel 601
No date Conditional Pardon for a John DWYER  page 236 of reel 601
5 June 1815, Absolute Pardon for a James DWYER ex the Atlas 1802, page 52, reel 800
31 Jan 1818, Absolute Pardon for a John DWYER, ex Atlas 1802, noting Received Conditional Pardon dated 29 Feb 1812.  Page 54, reel 800

Note that the James DWYER who received a Free Pardon (page 93, reel 601) was granted that pardon in consideration of work on the new road to Bathurst plains under Wm Cox.   

The reels are readily available on site at the Archives at Kingswood NSW, and at other locations too.

I think there could well be a connection between James DWYER and one of the John DWYER lads on that voyage of the Atlas in 1802.    So, perhaps it may be worthwhile looking for James DWYER’s origins along the quest to find John DWYER’s Irish heritage

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-convict-records/indexes-to-convict-records   

For all following this thread, this is a live link to a newish index put together by NSW State Records combining a number of their older style indexes in this one.   Please have a read through the information as it gives good background.  Scroll down through and have a good read of all the Archives in Brief and look through the examples of convict records.   There’s quality information in the records, but it is simply a matter of finding the “right” record for the ‘right’ John DWYER ….

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline jillyinnes

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Dwyer b Limerick 1766 d Australia 1844
« Reply #10 on: Monday 23 November 15 16:31 GMT (UK) »
This information is fantastic. I had been waiting for an email to advise me of new content in Rootschat but it didn't come. I'm so pleased I opened the discussion and found all this new help. It may take some time to sort through it all but I shall get back when I have done so.

Many thanks to all for your wonderful help.
cheers
Jilly
 ;D ;D

Offline Goorikidz

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
    • View Profile
Re: John Dwyer b Limerick 1766 d Australia 1844
« Reply #11 on: Monday 29 February 16 22:08 GMT (UK) »
This is some of what I have researched re John Dwyer.
"John Dwyer came to Australia on 'Atlas 2' which left Cork on 30th May 1802 and arrived in the Colony 30th October 1802. 

John came from Ireland County Tipperary; town Doon; Townland Toomaline.
John was tried by Court Marshal at Clonmel Gaol Clonmel Co. Tipperary.

On 20th May 1802 he was listed as a Stone Mason/Cutter by Governor Masden at Dublin Castle Ireland, on the 20th July 1800 he was found guilty of the supposed attack on the 13th March 1800 at Palas at the new Stone Bridge on the road to Killowla Co. Limerick. At the time of his trial John had a mother, sister and brother in the house with some children of his sister and Tom Franklin.

John Dwyer in the shipping Archive Office: 30th October 1802 from Cork. 4/4004  392  630  COD  138  2/8243  P 13  2417.
He was a political prisoner sentenced to life because he was accused of being in a group of three which was not allowed at the that time in Ireland, which was then ruled by Martial Law.
When he applied for a mitigation of his sentence In 1810 he was living on the stores and was an overseer to Masons, and had a wife and one child.
John Dwyer applied for a pardon No. 327 on 31/1/1810.  He received a conditional pardon No.96 on 29/02/1812.  He received a full pardon on 31/01/1818.

John and Elizabeth had two children in St Phillip's Sydney 1813 & 1815 plus Elizabeth was christened in 1813.  The rest of the children were christened at St. Mary's Sydney.
John and Elizabeth are in the Pioneer Register.  They are on the list for a grant of land in 1814 (3366, 9/3652 Page 17).

John Dwyer took up land at Appin in 1817.  Re service to John Oxley expedition in 1817.

In the Sydney Herald on 15th April 1831 he is listed in the Government Notice, Colonial Secretary's Office Sydney, under 'Deeds of Grant'.
 "Title Deeds, of the annexed, form, have been this day transmitted to the Surveyor General for the Undermentioned "Grants of Lane", in order, that when duly recorded, they may be forwarded to the collector of Internal Revenue for the purpose of being delivered to the respective parties, upon payment of the prescribed fees, and any arrears of quit-rent that may be due thereon: 
He had 50 acres, described in the Government Notice of the 10th September 1930 as No. 1-  Deed dated 8th  March 1831,.

The only record of John's death is in the Parish Register for Appin:  In 1844 he had 20 acres in Whest, 70 acres in Maize, 1 acre in Potatoes, 30 in Cird Crnd, with a total of 80 acres.  1 horse, 15 head of cattle, 20 hogs, 9 bales of wheat and 60 bales of Maize.  He did not live on the farm.

In the Doon Cemetery Laurence Marshall of Toomaline is buried 17 February 1834.  His father Oliver Marshall of Toomaline aged 70 11/1/1835.

In the 1870 property owner of County Limerick there is 833 acres owned by the Reps of Laurence E. Marshall and they reside at Toomaline Doon.

On the internet (http://www.com/cgi-bin_search.egi ) Irish Convicts search results of Irish Convicts to Australia 1791 - 1815 "  John Dwyer is lasted as a Rebel on the Atlas 2 - trial in 1801 in Limerick he received Life and was born 1776 in Limerick and died 1844 at Appin and he was a quarryman.

In the Griffiths Valuation Survey for Doon there was a Laurence Marshall Esq in 1851.  This is the son of Laurence Marshall who stood up for John Dwyer at the trial.

In the Tithe Book of Toomaline (Townland) Doon Co. Limerick 1826 - titles there was a Margaret Dwyer title holder at Toomaline in 1826."

My grandmother was Mamie Levenia Dwyer who married Harry Rayner and she was the daughter of Philip Dwyer and Isabella Mary Moore.  This is my connection to John Dwyer of Appin. I can tell you more about his properties in Appin.
Janette Childs
BONUS: Meath Ireland
BULL: Warwickshire
CANDLER: Essex;
CHILDS: Hampshire; IOW
COLES: Worcestershire, & Newport Wales; Australia
GAUDIN: Nottinghamshire; Australia, New Caledonia, France
HIGGERSON; Middlesex;
LLOYD: Montgomeryshire Wales
LITTLEWOOD: possibly Cornwall
POOLE: Llanymynech Wales, Sussex, Shropshire, Oswestry, Warwickshire, Australia;
POWELL: Shrewsbury, Shropshire
RAINBOW: Worcestershire
RAYNER: Wivenhoe, Essex, Australia
WILLIAMS: Monmouthshire;

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: John Dwyer b Limerick 1766 d Australia 1844
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 01 March 16 03:27 GMT (UK) »
This is some of what I have researched re John Dwyer.
"John Dwyer came to Australia on 'Atlas 2' which left Cork on 30th May 1802 and arrived in the Colony 30th October 1802. 

.......
John Dwyer applied for a pardon No. 327 on 31/1/1810.  He received a conditional pardon No.96 on 29/02/1812.  He received a full pardon on 31/01/1818.

John and Elizabeth had two children in St Phillip's Sydney 1813 & 1815 plus Elizabeth was christened in 1813.  The rest of the children were christened at St. Mary's Sydney.
John and Elizabeth are in the Pioneer Register.  They are on the list for a grant of land in 1814 (3366, 9/3652 Page 17).
......

Some information and also a question.
John, son of John and Elizabeth DWYER was born 4 December 1815, and baptised 24 December 1815.  The baptism is registered in the parish register of St Philip’s C of E, Sydney.    The baptism is twice registered in the NSW BDM Early Church Records.  This indicates to me that St Philips hold the transmitted record of the baptism, as per the requirements Governor Macquarie’s General Orders from 1810. 
NSW BDM Volume 7 (a volume of C of E registrations), line 482, of 1815
And
NSW BDM Volume 1B (C of E), line 3752, of 1815
And
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTCX-831

John DWYER aged 1 year 10 months died 19 October 1817 and was buried 20 October 1817.  The burial was registered at St Philip’s C of E, Sydney.
The burial is three times registered in the NSW BDM Early Church Records, which suggests to me that the transmitted record was twice recorded at St Philip’s, or there’s a confusion over the line number in Volume 2B.
1817, Vol 7, line 641
1817, Vol 2B line 3835
1817, Vol 2B, line 3853

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTCH-G25

May I please ask which of the TWO chaps named John DWYER, transported on the Atlas in 1802,  was the father of the baby baptised in December 1815

Further info in following post  :)


Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.


Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: John Dwyer b Limerick 1766 d Australia 1844
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 01 March 16 03:28 GMT (UK) »

The surname DWYER was quite a popular one on that 1802 voyage of the Atlas :
Anthony DWYER
Cornelius or Connor DWYER
John DWYER
John DWYER   
The NSW Colonial Secretary’s Index clearly notes that there were TWO John DWYER chaps on the Atlas of 1802
http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/d/F17c_dr-dy-14.htm#P6271_204417
“DWYER, John. Per "Atlas", 1802; two convicts of this name by this ship”

31 January 1818 John DWYER, ex Atlas 2 of 1802, from Co Tipperary, a Stone Cutter, and the person who had received a Conditional Pardon No. 96, dated 29 February 1812 was granted an Absolute Pardon.  He had been fried at Limerick, and he had received a Life Sentence ,  he was 5 ft 6 ½ inches tall,  dark ruddy complexion,   black hair, grey eyes,  The Absolute Pardon was numbered 327.

From the image of the letter dated 30 August 1824 from John DWYER to the NSW Governor, for a Grant of Land, it is clear that it was the John DWYER holding absolute Pardon 327 of 31 January 1818,  tracing back to Conditional pardon No. 96 of 29 February 1812 that was applying for that Grant of Land.   That petitioner states that he has “a Wife and four children and is possessed of 3 horses and 30 head of horned cattle”  He also states that he had obtained a Grand of Land …. Appin …. 1817,  30 Acres, the hole of which is entirely clear, and under cultivation, 18 acres of the same being stumped.”   The petition is seeking more land an ‘additional farm’ to immediately clear and cultivate

The John DWYER with the petition back in 1810 was seeking a Conditional Pardon.  At that time he was the Overseer of the Quarry.    The petition of 1810 was NOT numbered 327.   The Conditional Pardon it was seeking was not numbered 327. 

Now to my question.

Given there were two chaps named John DWYER on the Atlas of 1802, errr..... please may I ask how you have confirmed that the petitioner in 1810 is the same chap that received Absolute Pardon # 327  in 1818

You note Conditional Pardon and Full Pardon.    I am not sure what you mean by 'Full Pardon' but once a person had a Conditional Pardon they were emancipated. 

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-convict-records/index-to-tickets-of-leave-certificates-and-pardons

Pardons: Convicts with life sentences generally received pardons. The two main types of pardons were:
Conditional pardon - the convict was free as long as they remained in the colony
Absolute pardon - the convict's sentence was entirely remitted. They were free both within and outside of the colony and could return to Britain.
 


http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=65

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-convict-records/index-to-tickets-of-leave-certificates-and-pardons

So for example from the Atlas of 1802, Anthony DWYER received his CP 31 Jan 1815 and handed it back in upon receiving his AP 28 Nov 1821  (Reel 601 page 643)   (These are the reels at the State Archives at Kingswood NSW, and elsewhere)

James DWYER who arrived 1802 received a free pardon in consideration of work  on the new road to Bathurst Plains under Wm Cox.  (Reel 601, page 93)

John DWYER who arrived in Sydney 1802 received a Free Pardon.  (Reel 601, page 68)

John DWYER received a CP (reel 601 pages 132-133)

John DWYER received a CP (reel 601, page 236)

John DWYER received a CP 24 October 1809 (Reel 774, page 47), torn up 11 October 1821

Cornelius DWYER (or Conner), ex the Atlas of 1802, received a Ticket of leave in 1813, it was numbered 13/2, He had been tried at Limerick and received a Life Sentence. (Reel 601, pg 442)

Cornelius DWYER of the Atlas of 1802, received a CP dated 31 Jan 1814.  (Reel 774, page 72), Granted a special Cert in lieu on 10 Feb 1816,

James DWYER (remember that in NSW records that James and John were often found to be interchangeable given names) Atlas 1802, Tried Limerick, Life Sentence, received Ticket of Leave in 1811.  It was numbered 266 (11/266) Reel 601, page 463

James DWYER of the Atlas 1802, received AP on 5 June 1815.  Reel 800, page 052

John DWYER, of the Atlas 1802, received AP 31 Jan 1818.  Reel 800, page 054.  CP 29 Feb 1812.

John DWYER of the Atlas 1802 received CP 29 Feb  1812 Reel 774 page 56.

NSW State Records :
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-convict-records/index-to-convict-pardons/index-to-convict-pardons
Abbreviations

CP - Conditional Pardon; AP - Absolute Pardon; AP (E) - Exceptive Absolute Pardon; Col - Colonial Pardon;
Col P - Colonial Pardon; Col CP - Colonial Conditional Pardon; Col FP - Colonial Free Pardon;
RW - Royal Pardon Warrant; FP - Free Pardon; CP (1C) - First Class Conditional Pardon;
CP (2C) - Second Class Conditional Pardon


Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline rathmore

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,016
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Dwyer b Limerick 1766 d Australia 1844
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 08 March 16 12:45 GMT (UK) »
John Dwyer court martialled in july 1801, Atlas, John Dwyer, Hugh Hays, Denis Molly, George Russell, Grimes Tierney, group conducted armes raids around limerick, march 1800,

Book by Anne Maree Whittker, Unfinished Revolution

Offline MaddenGerard

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Dwyer b Limerick 1766 d Australia 1844
« Reply #15 on: Friday 09 September 16 15:52 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I just noticed this post. Have you done any DNA testing in Looking for you O'Dwyer from Limerick.

It may be a Coincidence but my GG Greatfather, Edmund Dwyer married a Mary Marshall in the 1820's and was living in Caherelly which is not that far from Doon. He was not a Land Lord but his son was educated to be an Engineer.

Gerard

Offline jillyinnes

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Dwyer b Limerick 1766 d Australia 1844
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 10 September 16 11:08 BST (UK) »
Now that's what I call looking outside the square Gerard, and no I hadn't thought of it. The Dwyer's are on my father's side. I did a DNA test on my mother's side but to be quite honest I can't understand the information. Think I might have to do my father's side too. Many thanks.

The Dwyer name is so common and I felt it might be rather difficult to connect but your suggestion certainly has merit.

Cheers
Jill