Irish birth & death certificates plus rules for burial in Ireland

[california dreamin]

Hi everyone,

I wonder if someone could possibly answer the following questions:

Would an Irish bc record if a baby was a twin?

Is it unusual for a child to be registered with one name and baptised with another?

Why no death registrations?  What was the law with regard to burials? Many of the deaths I am looking for have no dc.  It seems to be a lucky dip if I find both a Church burial entry + dc, a dc only or a Church burial entry. Sometimes none of the above if the person was a child or baby. The dates I am looking for vary between 1850's - 1900.  (Note: I do realise prior to 1864 there would be no civil reg.)

What was the custom with regard to burials?

Thanks for your assistance

CD

[aghadowey]

It wasn't uncommon for a child to be registered with one name recorded and a middle name added later, baptised with a different name or even registered without a first name being chosen (a proactice strongly discouraged by the 1990s),

As far as death certificates go there should be a registration from 1864 onwards (certainly by 1870s). If you are having difficulty locating one perhaps the recorded age is not accurate and putting you off from finding the one you are looking for.

Burial records depend on the custom for the place of interment. The Church of Ireland usually kept burial registers* as did cemeteries but many other churches did not keep such records.
* sometimes the C. of I. registers did not record those burials for people not members of their church.

Not sure exactly what you mean by this "What was the custom with regard to burials?"

[california dreamin]

Hi aghadowey

Thanks for your reply - so if the child were a twin you recken it would say so?  I have a bc with one name and also a church baptism record with another name - these are dated within days of each other.  So from what you say this is highly likely - same child but two different names.

Also, from what you have said there most definitely should be a dc in order for the Priest to bury someone.  I have been pretty methodical here using three/four websites to try and cross check myself and pick up information. I have also been using dates before and after I would expect the various people to have died.  Some I'm pretty sure would have died in infancy.  The only thing I will double check is to put a 'variant' on the spelling on the surname..I can't remember if I did that. It really is a mystery.  I understand why I may not find someone in a parish record but certainly for the dates I am looking at I would expect to find the death cert.

With regard to burial customs - so someone dies then what? Do they hold a wake - is it a quiet affair? Is the family responsible for getting the body to an undertaker, was there such a thing or was it up to the immediate family to prepare the person?  I am thinking around the 1870's here.

Thanks once again for your help.
CD

[hallmark]

It is a bit like asking "How long is a piece of rope?"... all scenarios are possible including family members digging the grave and burying body with no service and I've seen church entries with... "name". buried during morning service, no ceremony.... if people hadn't money to pay gravedigger, shroud and funeral service charges. There were even coffins with false bottoms rented out...

Depends on if they had money or not as to what happened.. then how much money...

[aghadowey]

I have seen birth certificates for twin without a time mentioned but that detail might have been recorded sometimes. However, if there were twins then each live birth would have been registered separately so that the two births would either appear on the same page or consecutive pages.

I find it most unlikely that deaths in the later part of the 1900s 1800s would gone unregistered no matter what the circumstances but without more exact information it's impossible to find the registrations.

[conahy calling]

http://www.maggieblanck.com/Mayopages/Customs.html

This link may be of some interest.

[california dreamin]

Hi everyone

Many thanks for your replies:

hallmark - Thank you for your reply and the scenario's you mention. It is useful to know that anything could have been possible. The family were very poor there is no doubt about it.

aghadowey - I'm with you on this I would have thought is was highly unlikely that a death in the later party of the 1900's would have gone unregistered.  I would have gone further and said the later part of the 1800's and early 1900's.  I'm not sure what I can be missing.  I'm going to search again with spelling variants on to make sure I covered this.

Could a priest bury a person without a dc?

conahy calling - Thanks for the link  - I read it with interest!

CD

[hallmark]

Well if you gave names/dates it would be easier BUT who said a Priest did burial? Many RC are buried in C of I g/yards..... even for C of I you'll find people buried with no funeral service, buried while Rector was away, during Sunday service, insufficient notice given and all sorts of things....

[california dreamin]

Well I'm pretty happy that those people that I have found church burial records for were buried by the priest otherwise I wouldn't have found a record.  For those that I cannot find a record for I suppose there is always the chance they were buried in C of I g/yards.  However I would find it odd that some of the family were buried at their usual church and some were in the C of I church yard.

Also, the databases I am using do not distinguish between religions.  So if buried with a 'proper' church service whatever denomination there should be a burial record.  The only explanation could be they were buried surreptitiously (as you suggest), the records do not exist anymore, the database is not complete or they were not buried in N.I.  These I am questioning were definitely born and died in Co Derry.