Completely stumped after 14 years of searching!

[Wood-dweller]

Well, I hate to say it but I almost feel like admitting defeat on one branch of my family tree! I've been searching for some info about the same man for 14 years now with no luck! As a last ditch attempt, please could someone help me if you can?

My ancestor seemingly popped out of thin air at his wedding in 1740 and no amount of searching seems to churn anything up about his parents or siblings, or even his death. What can I do? I've tried every approach I can think of.

Here's what I know about him:

Name: James DALTREY

Birth: Circa 1715/1716 (A distant relative located a request for marriage licence which I haven't seen. It gave his age as 25 on 31.12.1741 which gives a birth year of 1715/1716)

Occupation: Listed on a record as being a tobacconist

He married Lydia King Jan 1st 1742 (it's listed as being 1741 but that seems to be wrong as the dates on the original page are jumbled) and he is listed as being a widower. I found an earlier record which looks like it matches with him and it shows a marriage to Mary Lewis Jan 22nd 1740. This is the first mention I can find of James anywhere! Birth records for him simply don't seem to exist!

He seems to move around London a bit in the 15 years I can trace of his life. Here are the details:

Jan 22 1740 - St Bartholomew the Great Marriage to Mary Lewis (This is the first trace of him)
Oct 7 1741 - St Saviour, Southwark - Mary's burial and their son's burial is around the same time so presumably they died together in childbirth?

Jan 1 1742 - St Martin, Ludgate - Marriage to Lydia King

Jan 13 1744 St Bartholomew the Great - Birth of Mary Hannah
Feb 14 1747 St Botolph Bishopsgate - Birth of James (this is who my line descends from)
Jun 08 1750 St Sepulchre - Birth of Lydia (Written on the record as living at Old Bailey?)
Dec 15 1755 St Sepulchre - Birth of Ann

Any help anyone could give me would be very gratefully received and might even help me to stop tearing my hair out! 

[dawnsh]

I can't offer anything concrete, but where did the children end up?

If they stayed within the London area then I suppose he could have stayed too.

As to earlier records, they may not have survived, be illegible/faded so they cant be transcribed or he was baptised outside of London and moved into the area with his parents at some time.

Re: the marriage licence, the record is available from the Society of Genealogists and a copy costs £15. His entry can be found at FindMyPast as James Daltry with Lydia King

http://www.sog.org.uk/books-courses/document-hard-copy-service/

The LMA has published this leaflet

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/visiting-the-city/archives-and-city-history/london-metropolitan-archives/Documents/visitor-information/07-marriage-licence-records.pdf

Looking again at the register, he did marry in 1741, until 1752 January was at the end of the year, not the beginning (google calendar reform 1752)

So Mary died October 1741, 9 months after her marriage 22 January 1740 (new year started in March) and he remarried 3 months later in January 1741, 1742 starts in March

I'm surprised that they appear to be living in the City of London, but she is buried in Southwark, which is south of the river. I wonder if this is her parish?

[dawnsh]

The LMA has also published this leaflet for finding wills

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/visiting-the-city/archives-and-city-history/london-metropolitan-archives/Documents/visitor-information/06-wills-for-london.pdf

[ciderdrinker]

Good morning

Wife Lydia is remarrying at St Giles Cripplegate 29.6.1757
Onesiphorus Pass widower (previous wife Mary -daughter Mary of Angel Court  bap 6.9.1739 St Brides)  of this parish and Lydia Daltercy widow of this parish were married by banns.The groom makes a mark but Lydia signs as Lydia Daltry.
witnesses Daniel Pass and Gabriel Cooper.


Other child from first marriage to Mary -John Pass 28.7.1736 St Giles Cripplegate.

So James must have died between the conception of their daughter Ann and 29.6.1757.

Onesiphorus  Pass remarries once again at St Leonard Shoreditch to a Mitchell Hall widow 2.6.1760.
witnesses Thomas Pimm and Thomas Sanders .
So again Lydia must have died 1757-1760.

Mitchell was buried at St Lukes Finsbury 1 Dec 1768 so he wasn't having a lot of luck with wives.

An on line family tree has taken an entry on the National burial index for a James Daltry son of John at Pontefract as him.I'm not so sure.It is true Daltry comes from Yorkshire and Lancashire but it seems strange he should move back there.
There are a tax records at St Giles Cripplegate For James Daltry near Half Moon Alley 1755-57.It rises from 10' to £1
Unfortunately the ones for Surrey I can see only start in 1780.Onesiphous Pass in 1763 at Cripplegate is paying £1 8'.

I know it's not the baptism you wanted but I hope it helps a little.

Ciderdrinker

[Wood-dweller]

Thank you both so much I didn't know the new year was at a different time back then! Will process the info in your posts later and see where it leads.

Ciderdrinker, I had seen about Lydia's marriage to Onesiphorus Pass before .. will have a look at the other details too later on.

Thank you for the tax records too - I hadn't seen that before. He's an elusive chap!

I have seen a lot of refences to William Daltrey/Daltry in the late 1600s and early 1700s (will try to dig out the info later) and I suspect he may be James' father (particularly as James named his first child William) but I can't find anything concrete at all.

London land tax records
William Daltrey – Farringdon Without, City of London – 1692
William Daltrey – Vintry, City of London – 1725/1726/1728

There is a William Daltrey who married Jane Willsford and they had three children but I can't find any evidence of James being one of their children and I suspect he was born a little too late.

William Dolltrey m. Jane Willsford 04 Apr 1689 (Saint James Dukes Place, London)
Samuell Daltrey b. 1689 (St. Lawrence Jewry and St. Mary Magdalen Milk Street, London)
Susana Doltrey b.1697 (Saint Martin – Vintry, London)
Willsford Daltrey b.1705 (Saint Martin – Vintry, London)

James was born around 1715/1716.

I have also seen the (many) family trees who make the connection with the Yorkshire/Pontefract Daltrey but I don't think it's right either. It makes no sense and I think it's just a case of one person making an incorrect link between two different James Daltreys and then everyone else has copied it.

Thank you both again for your thoughts any other light anyone can shed would be most welcome

[dawnsh]

From my own research, a widowed woman with children, often was not a widow for long before a second or subsequent marriage, they couldn't afford to be.

Not conclusive I know, but James most probably died nearer to her remarriage in 1757 than the birth of the child in 1755.

I had a look at the burial at St Giles Cripplegate from 1755 to 1757 but he wasn't there, but I thought there mightbe gaps in some of the entries. I think the register was complied at the ends of the months not as the months were going along.

[Spiller]

I've responded to the other thread - believe I've cracked it. Beverley Yorkshire where William also came from - would have been James' great uncle.