Author Topic: John Herbert Speake, Brecknok  (Read 4592 times)

Offline Dannemois

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,959
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
John Herbert Speake, Brecknok
« on: Saturday 18 April 15 11:22 BST (UK) »
Hello
I wonder if there is a member who can help finding the 'parents' of John Herbert Speake
Born 1891, registered Quarter Apr-May-Jun. in Brecknock, Brecknockshire (Volume 11B, Page 102, Line Number 170).  I located 9 year-old John Speake on the 1901 residing with his uncle stone mason John Speake at ‘Canteen’ Llanbadan, Knighton, Radnor.  On the 1911 census John Herbert Speake aged 19 was boarder with Charles Hutton and family at 8 Harcourt Terrace, Brithdir, Gelligaer.
Regards, Roy
anything and everything to do with the village of Brithdir, near New Tredegar in Gwent.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline groom

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,144
  • Me aged 3. Tidied up thanks to Wiggy.
    • View Profile
Re: John Herbert Speake, Brecknok
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 18 April 15 21:06 BST (UK) »
This looks like the uncle in 1851 - so your John's parent should be one of his siblings. The only way to be sure would be to get his birth certificate

HO107; Piece: 1983; Folio: 147; Page: 17

Samuel Speak   47                Cardington, Shropshire
Elizabeth Speak   50                Hoapsay, Shropshire
William Speak   21                Clun, Shropshire
Ann Speak           15                Clun, Shropshire
John Speak   12                Clun, Shropshire
Mary Speak   8                  Clun, Shropshire
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Dannemois

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,959
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Re: John Herbert Speake, Brecknok
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 19 April 15 12:57 BST (UK) »
Hello Groom
Thanks for taking interest and posting the 1851 details.  I am researching all the names on the war memorials within the Rhymney Valley and although I appreciate the need to purchase certificates when researching ones family, it would be prove costly in this case as there are several unidentified casualties on every memorial and I am trying all other means first.  John's brother William Speake, widower was also living in Brithdir in 1911 (partially attached) so there's a chance he could be John H's father.  I need to get his birth certificate. 

Thanks again for your input


anything and everything to do with the village of Brithdir, near New Tredegar in Gwent.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline groom

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,144
  • Me aged 3. Tidied up thanks to Wiggy.
    • View Profile
Re: John Herbert Speake, Brecknok
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 19 April 15 19:44 BST (UK) »
 John Herbert Speake could be the ilegitimate son of Ann or Mary shown in the 1851.

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Dannemois

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,959
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Re: John Herbert Speake, Brecknok
« Reply #4 on: Monday 20 April 15 09:04 BST (UK) »
Hi Groom
I suspected John Herbert Speake could be have been born out of wedlock; I presume his birth was still registered in a parish records?   
anything and everything to do with the village of Brithdir, near New Tredegar in Gwent.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline groom

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,144
  • Me aged 3. Tidied up thanks to Wiggy.
    • View Profile
Re: John Herbert Speake, Brecknok
« Reply #5 on: Monday 20 April 15 10:08 BST (UK) »
There's something not quite right about this and I'm now wondering if either that is the wrong family in 1851 or whether we have the wrong generation, as all the children from 1851 would be quite old to have a child born 1891.

I'm presuming that John was killed in WW1, have you found his war records or a mention on the CWGC site?
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Dannemois

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,959
  • I've not edited my PROFILE yet
    • View Profile
Re: John Herbert Speake, Brecknok
« Reply #6 on: Monday 20 April 15 17:01 BST (UK) »
Hi Groom
That is the problem I have, he is named on the village war memorial as J. Speake but unfortunately his military records have not survived.  Hence I am clutching at straws.

Roy 
anything and everything to do with the village of Brithdir, near New Tredegar in Gwent.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline keyboard86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,056
    • View Profile
Re: John Herbert Speake, Brecknok
« Reply #7 on: Monday 20 April 15 17:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Groom
That is the problem I have, he is named on the village war memorial as J. Speake but unfortunately his military records have not survived.  Hence I am clutching at straws.

Roy

Hi Roy, just spotted this thread,  so what other evidence suggests a middle name of Herbert?
Keyboard
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline groom

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,144
  • Me aged 3. Tidied up thanks to Wiggy.
    • View Profile
Re: John Herbert Speake, Brecknok
« Reply #8 on: Monday 20 April 15 18:14 BST (UK) »
Are you absolutely sure that he was John, if it just says J Speake? The CWGC has 2 John Speakes, one has details of parents and is from Lancashire. The other is a John Speake, Rifle Brigade who died 4/5/1915 and is commemorated at Ypres on the Menin Gate.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk