John James Ferguson born circa 1864

[LUV]

Sadly did some more work at Scotlandspeople but John James Ferguson's death is still a problem   
If I could find that then presumably I could get confirmation on his parents and figure out if Dad was Terrence and mom Mary Toller???

This is what I have found so far...
I found John and Agnes on the 1901 Census
In Edinburgh St Giles
Both are listed as 39
John is a fish monger born Renfrewshire Glasgow
At that point they have 6 children  -- including my interest, their son John (jr) age 12
They must have moved lots because almost each child has a different place of birth listed

On the 1911 though things change 
Still in Edinburgh St. Giles
However Agnes age 48 is listed as Head
Yet, she indicates she is married not widow and has been married for 28 years (fits with 1883 marriage)
No sign of hubby though
John (Jr) still living at home age 21

John (Jr) marries Rebecca Walker in 1912 in Edinburgh and on his marriage his says his father is a "seaman merchant service" and does not indicate he is deceased at the time of his marriage to Rebecca (similar to when his dad married Agnes and did not indicate that his father Harry/Terry/Henry was deceased!)

Anyway Agnes Croan-Ferguson dies in 1916 and on her death certificate it says " widow of John Ferguson seaman merchant service"

So presumably John James Ferguson died between 1912-1916 ... however when I do a search I get 5 candidates between the age of 45-55 and none having died in Edinburgh... 

Is there anyway to find out the profession of these guys??? If one was a 'seaman merchant service' then I gladly pay the 5 credits to take a look....

Any thoughts on where to go from here??

[LUV]

Just wanted to add a bit more as a couple of you have help and so I wanted to let you know where I am at as I do appreciate the hand up 

I got the marriage for Terence Ferguson and Mary Toller 1863 in Glasgow

As I suspected, Mary Toller is listed as a widow not spinster ... she is also listed as  being 35 then too.

So, then John Ferguson listed as stepson to Terrence, according to the 1871 Census, makes sense and is validated by this marriage. Although he must have been just a baby when his Mom married Terence Ferguson as his birth was around 1863.

On the 1871 census is also a 19 year old Margaret, I think perhaps she is the "Reid" children's mother. Those children who appear on the 1881 census with Mary Toller-Ferguson but I looked for marriages of a Margaret Ferguson and 'REID' and came up empty. Perhaps she went by her original surname at marriage as she would have been older when her mom married Terrance Ferguson???

I think MaryAnn is the only natural child of the union of Terrence Ferguson and Mary Toller. Makes sense as Mary was getting older ...

Sadly, I also think that Mary Toller was likely born and had her first marriage in Ireland so ... unless I can catch a break I have hit the end of the road here I think?

I have no way of connecting up John James Ferguson who marries Agnes Croan in 1883 to being one and the same as this John Ferguson stepson of Terrence Ferguson ....  only conjecture but it feels right 

If the re-scan of the marriage shows his mom as clearly Mary Toller that it is a huge plus and would be reason to pursue this family more.  Although it then becomes who was his REAL father, who was Mary Toller married to before she married Terence Ferguson ....

And what happened to Terrence Ferguson??  Just like what happens to John James Ferguson ... these men obviously died but finding their deaths is proving a chore too.

[Forfarian]

I think MaryAnn is the only natural child of the union of Terrence Ferguson and Mary Toller.

Be a wee bit careful with the phrase 'natural child'. In older (pre-1855) records this always indicates an illegitimate child, as opposed to 'lawful child' which means legitimate.

Sadly, I also think that Mary Toller was likely born and had her first marriage in Ireland so ... unless I can catch a break I have hit the end of the road here I think?

A Scottish death certificate after about 1860 normally names all a woman's husbands. If you can't find a death certificate in Scotland, it is indeed likely to be difficult

[Br1gau]

Quote from previous post:

"Now what is also interesting is that on the 1871 census it looks like John then age 9 is listed as 'step son' as is an older sister Margaret 19 'step dau'.  Maryann is 4 and listed as dau (daughter)."

Can't seem to find this census.  Where were they living in 1871 and where was Margaret born?

[LUV]

Hi there Br1gau

On the 1871 they are in Glasgow (644/01083/00 011)
The Census is hard to read so I have asked for it to be re-scanned. 
Terrence, Mary, Mary Ann and John all listed as being born Ireland
Margaret looks like something else: Lanarkshire Airdrie if I was a betting person!

[Br1gau]

You'll have to put this on hold until confirmed by later bmd certs, but it appears to make sense as a timeline - as long as you're ok with spelling variations, that is..........

1850 MARGARET CALLIGAN b. 14 Sep 1850, bap. 25 Sep 1850 St Margaret’s, Airdrie, parents: William CALLIGAN & MARY TONAR

1854 James ROURK & Mary TONNOR married January New Monkland, Lanark (family search)
1854 James ROURK & Mary TONAR married February St Margaret’s, Airdrie (SP Catholic Register)

1861 census 33 Bank St, Old Monkland Middle
JAMES ROURKE 40 Ireland, Labourer
MARY ROURKE 29 Ireland
MARGARET CARRIGAN 10 step-dau New Monkland
TERRENCE FERGUSON 33 Ireland, Labourer
Hugh Mulque, 21 & Patrick Mcgee 35 boarders.  Both labourers born Ireland

1861 JOHN ROURKE born 7 Sep Hutchesntown, Glasgow, parents James Rourke & MARY TONER

1863 TERENCE FERGUSSON married MARY TOLLER 13 Sep Huthesontown, Glasgow

1871 census
TERENCE & MARY FERGUSON in Glasgow with MARGARET 19 & JOHN 9 both stepchildren

[LUV]

WOW you get the award for best digging ever

I am definitely ok with the variants as I have been looking at Taylor and Tyler but never thought Toner!!! Bravo...

So just so I get it ... Mary Toller/Toner was presumably married 3x
1st to William Calligan
2nd to James Rourk
3rd to Terrence Ferguson

She actually married the guy (Terrence Ferguson) who had been boarding with her and her husband in 1861 ... very interesting.

So then it makes sense that John James Ferguson was actually John James Rourke but since Terrence was probably the only father he knew well, he just adopted the Ferguson surname.

I guess I'd better get busy with finding some BMD's
Might take some time but I'll definitely post results ....

[LUV]

So I just spent a lot of credits and came up empty!!

What is with this really bizarre family.... 

I suspect some of my problems have to do with all the variants in spellings.  Plus maybe people moving about!!  Then to top it off maybe I am simply not typing the right inputs to get the most choices from the Scotlandspeople searches???  Anyone care to give a tutorial

Anyway I could not find the 1851 Census with William Calligan/Carrigan & Mary and presumable baby Margaret
The OPR entry for the marriage of James Rourk and Mary in 1854 only gives their names and that is it and that is all (does not say she was a widow or give anything)
I could not find a death for James Rourke 1861-1864 that fit...
I could not find a marriage for a Margaret Calligan/Carrigan to a unknown Reid 1870-1880

Still have not found a death for Terence Ferguson???

And I have not located the death for the LEADING LADY herself Mary Toller/Tonner/Tonar aka Mary Carrigan/Calligen aka Mary Ferguson ....

Before I go back to Scotlandspeople I'll need to have a bit more 

In the end I really would like to find the death for John James Ferguson (quite possibly Rourke) and his mother Mary ....anything else is a bonus!!!

Thanks all

[Br1gau]

LUV, as Forfarian said: stop beating your brains out!  Use the options on SP; wildcards, names beginning with, soundtex etc to narrow things down before committing precious credits.  Once you think you have what you want, widen the search parameters to get a full page of up to 25 records.  These may be useful later.  It does take a lot of patience and clicking!  And start looking at post 1855 certs first as these will give you so much more information.  Have you seen the 1861 birth for John Rourke?  The only death for James Rourke 1861-63 in all of Scotland is 1861 Milton, Glasgow (born 1817) the age is about right but can’t be sure without looking; Milton seems to break the pattern.  I did once find an absolute pig’s ear of a death cert for someone.  It was a pit accident and the hospital orderly that filled in the form hadn’t a clue who the poor deceased man was.

As for the star of the show, none other than the elusive late, great, husband-eating Mary T*r herself, she’s there hiding in plain sight, just follow her through the censuses.

Another timeline:

1872 Margaret Ferguson married Hugh McBride Lanarkshire

Hugh died.

1880 St John’s Chapel, Portugal St, Glasgow.  Margaret McBride, seamstress, widow, married Peter Reid, widower; Commercial Traveller, Lanark.  Her parents were William James Ferguson, Coal Miner, deceased & Mary Ferguson formerly Kerrigan, m/s Boyle (Arrgh!) Possibly Boyle was Margaret's grandmother's name?  Send me a PM if you want this cert e-mailed.

1891 Hutchesontown, Glasgow, Govanhill
Peter Reid 41 Falkirk, Stirling, draper
Margaret Reid 39 Airdrie
Margaret 14 (formerly McBride? see 1881 census, Edinburgh)
John 13 (ditto)
Mary Ann 8
Peter 6
Daniel 5
Helena 3
Isabella 1
Mary Ferguson 71 Ireland, M in Law, Housekeeper
Mary Ann Ferguson 20 Lanark, Sis in Law, Draper’s Ass

1901 census Dennistoun, Glasgow
Peter Reid 50, Falkirk, Traveller Packman
Mary Reid 45, Airdrie
Maggie 24
John 23
Mary 18
Peter 15
Daniel 14
Lena 11
James 5

1896 Mary Ann Ferguson married David Campbell, Lanark

1901 census Hutchesontown
David Campbell 20 Glasgow, Drapery Graveller
Mary A Campbell 20 (?) Glasgow, Drapery Graveller
Mary Ferguson 84 Ireland, M in Law

1905 Mary Ferguson, other name Toner, b. 1817, died Dennistoun, Lanark